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Platypus Rex

Poll: Is Sweetrobin the Son of Littlefinger?

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Posted (edited)

This is a poll.  Please answer "Yes" or "No" to the following question:

Is Robert Arryn, called "Robin" or "Sweetrobin", Actually the Bastard Son of Petyr Baelish, Called "Littlefinger"?

For context, this theory is listed in the pinned "A Compendium of Theories" thread up top, where you can find more information.  Other threads, on this and other forums, can also be found without too much difficulty.  At its most simple, the theory is inspired by the fact that Lysa and Petyr were having an affair during Lysa's marriage to Jon.  More specifically, it has been argued that Sweetrobin's appearance does not match that of Harold Hardying, who in turn is said to resemble a young Jon Arryn.  It has also been pointed out that Petyr and Robin are both small in size.

As usual in these polls, "No" is meant to be the default surface answer, and "Yes" is supposed to be the "theory answer" that will require confirmation in future books.   Hence, if the remaining books are released and contain no further evidence on this issue, I would consider the theory disconfirmed.  I know there are some who suspect Petyr is the father, but who expect no further revelations on this issue.  But I don't want this to be about purely private personal opinions that can never be confirmed or denied by future volumes.  My suggestion, therefore, would be to vote "No" is you expect no further revelations, and "Yes" only if you feel additional revelations will tend to confirm Petyr as Robin's father.  But that is only a suggestion, and of course you all will do as you please.

Feel free to give reasons for your answers, or otherwise elaborate.  However, I ask that you not argue with the reasons given by other posters until at least the third page of this thread.  After that, have at it.

Thank you in advance for all votes.

---------------------------------x

12 for to 23 against, so far.

  • For:  Back door hodor, Lollygag, Haus Berlin, Legitimate_Bastard, LadyOlenna, Aurane, Lynesse, Aegon VII, Sigella, Lost Melnibonean, Prince Henryis, Megavora
  • Against:  Enuma Elish, Anjulibai, Bael's Bastard, Karneol, the Other Wolf, nyster1, Sea Dragon, White Ravens, Makk, corbon, the trees have eyes, SophiaWilson17, Bhaen Shadowein, Ser Leftwich, Springwatch, Nevets, The Knight of Flours, Ibbison from Ibben, bent branch, Vaith, BalerionTheCat, Daemon of the Blacks, Alexis-something-Rose, and (not counted) Platypus Rex.

But remember, boys and girls, just because it is unpopular, does not mean it is not true!

-----------------------------------x

Previous "Unpopular Theory" Polls (in order of popularity):

  • "Did Jojen Die Off-Page in DANCE?"*:  16 for to 29 against (35.6%).  Supported by  Gertrude, chrisdaw, WyldFyre, Penny's Got a Gun, Megavora, Back door hodor, Lost Melnibonean, Tucu, acwill07, Ibbison from Ibben, Son of Man, Remiem, OtherFromAnotherMother, Lynesse, Jo Maltese, Paltogue.  Opposed by:  HelenaExMachina, kissdbyfire, many others.
  • "Is the House with the Red Door in Dorne?"*:  8 in favor to 29 against (21.6%).  Supported by  TPTWP Timett, Sly Wren, Nezza86, Impbread, Sophia Wilson17, Sigella., Lollygag, Sweet Desire.  Opposed by:  Ran, Ygrain, many others.
  • "Did Summer See a Dragon?"*:  8 for to 38 against (17.4%).  Supported by:  Legitimate_Bastard, rustythesmith, TPTWP Timett, Remirem, kleevedge, Gertrude, Wolfkin, sweetsunray.  Opposed by:  The hairy bear, kissdbyfire, Lost Melnibonean, many others.
  • "Is Jon Snow the Son of a Dayne?":  6 for to 37 against (13.9%).  Supported by:   Sly Wren, Enuma Elish, Vaedys Targaryen, JS97, SophiaWilson17, kleevedge.  Opposed by:  kissdbyfire, many others.
  • "Is Varys a Woman"*:  2 for to 28 against (6.7%).  Supported by:  Rufus Snow, Jabar of House Titan.  Opposed by:  The hairy bear, many others.
  • "Is Daario actually Euron?"*:  3 in favor to 43 against (6.5%).  Supported by: Adam Targaryen, Paltogue, BRANDON GREYSTARK.  Opposed by:  kissdbyfire, Lost Melnibonean, many others.
  • "Is Quentyn, called 'Frog', Still Alive?"*:  2 for to 46 against (4.2%).  Supported by: SophieWilson17, Tucu. Opposed by:  kissdbyfire, many others.

To save space, I have only listed the names of the brave souls who supported each prior Unpopular Theory, as well as one or two Forum Big Shots who opposed it.  No disrespect to the other Victorious Winners of the poll is intended.  The full tally of names of all voters can be found in the original threads.  While I do not county my own votes, those I support are marked with a "*".

Edited by Platypus Rex

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24 minutes ago, Enuma Elish said:

Some think so.  Fifty-fifty he is.  But 50% is not a yes.  So no, he is not.

Thank you for your vote. 

People seem slow to vote on this one.  I guess it just doesn't excite people the way Daario=Euron excites people.

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Posted (edited)

I'm gonna say yes to this one....lots of circumstantial evidence but as of yet no smoking gun, this one makes sense to me from a thematic/literary the way some other theories do not.(though I fully acknowledge with Lysa dead, future revelations may be hard to come by.)

 P.S. Sorry Platypus, I know that sounds hypocritical based on the answers I've give to some of your other polls but, it is what it is.)

Edited by Back door hodor

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46 minutes ago, Back door hodor said:

P.S. Sorry Platypus, I know that sounds hypocritical based on the answers I've give to some of your other polls but, it is what it is.)

Not hypocritical at all.  Sometimes you just have to go with your gut.

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Posted (edited)

Maybe, but I doubt it. I feel like that's something that Lysa would have admitted when she lets out all of her and Petyr's secrets right before Petyr kills her. She also seemed pretty desperate to get a child from Petyr to replace the one they lost. 

ETA: She says this to Petry right before her death:

Quote

You can't want her. You can't. She's a stupid empty-headed little girl. She doesn't love you the way I have. I've always loved you. I've proved it, haven't I? I gave you my maiden's gift. I would have given you a son too, but they murdered him with moon tea, with tansy and mint and wormwood, a spoon of honey and a drop of pennyroyal. It wasn't me, I never knew, I only drank what Father gave me...

If she had given Petyr a son, she would have phrased this way differently.

Jon Arryn and Harold Hardyng might have resembled each other, but that doesn't mean they had the same coloring. Jon could have had brown hair to Harold's blond. 

Edited by anjulibai

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No chance.

1. Lysa is adamant that Robert is Jon's seed.

Lysa seated herself near the fire and said, "Come to Mother, my sweet one." She straightened his bedclothes and fussed with his fine brown hair. "Isn't he beautiful? And strong too, don't you believe the things you hear. Jon knew. The seed is strong, he told me. His last words. He kept saying Robert's name, and he grabbed my arm so hard he left marks. Tell them, the seed is strong. His seed. He wanted everyone to know what a good strong boy my baby was going to be."

- AGOT: Catelyn VI

2. Lysa is explicit that the child she made with Petyr was "murdered."

"You may not." Her aunt's breath smelled of wine. "If you were anyone else, I would banish you. Send you down to Lord Nestor at the Gates of the Moon, or back to the Fingers. How would you like to spend your life on that bleak shore, surrounded by slatterns and sheep pellets? That was what my father meant for Petyr. Everyone thought it was because of that stupid duel with Brandon Stark, but that wasn't so. Father said I ought to thank the gods that so great a lord as Jon Arryn was willing to take me soiled, but I knew it was only for the swords. I had to marry Jon, or my father would have turned me out as he did his brother, but it was Petyr I was meant for. I am telling you all this so you will understand how much we love each other, how long we have suffered and dreamed of one another. We made a baby together, a precious little baby." Lysa put her hands flat against her belly, as if the child was still there. "When they stole him from me, I made a promise to myself that I would never let it happen again. Jon wished to send my sweet Robert to Dragonstone, and that sot of a king would have given him to Cersei Lannister, but I never let them . . . no more than I'll let you steal my Petyr Littlefinger. Do you hear me, Alayne or Sansa or whatever you call yourself? Do you hear what I am telling you?"

"NO!" Lysa gave Sansa's head another wrench. Snow eddied around them, making their skirts snap noisily. "You can't want her. You can't. She's a stupid empty-headed little girl. She doesn't love you the way I have. I've always loved you. I've proved it, haven't I?" Tears ran down her aunt's puffy red face. "I gave you my maiden's gift. I would have given you a son too, but they murdered him with moon tea, with tansy and mint and wormwood, a spoon of honey and a drop of pennyroyal. It wasn't me, I never knew, I only drank what Father gave me . . ."

- ASOS: Sansa VII

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

No chance.

1. Lysa is adamant that Robert is Jon's seed.

Lysa seated herself near the fire and said, "Come to Mother, my sweet one." She straightened his bedclothes and fussed with his fine brown hair. "Isn't he beautiful? And strong too, don't you believe the things you hear. Jon knew. The seed is strong, he told me. His last words. He kept saying Robert's name, and he grabbed my arm so hard he left marks. Tell them, the seed is strong. His seed. He wanted everyone to know what a good strong boy my baby was going to be."

- AGOT: Catelyn VI

 

Isn't "the seed is strong" a reference to Baratheon dark hair etc.

I thought that was Jon Arryns dying brain literally saying out loud about what he found out about Roberts seed.

Edited by Legitimate_Bastard

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No

Lysa is the last person that wouldnt tell Petyr about his living when she was about to be pushed out of the moondoor

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No. 

34 minutes ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

Isn't "the seed is strong" a reference to Baratheon dark hair etc.

I thought that was Jon Arryns dying brain literally saying out loud about what he found out about Roberts seed.

Yes, but Lysa does not know that. I would phrase it differently, it was not his "dying brain", he consciously knew he was dying and was trying to get the information out.

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28 minutes ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

Isn't "the seed is strong" a reference to Baratheon dark hair etc.

I thought that was Jon Arryns dying brain literally saying out loud about what he found out about Roberts seed.

While Jon Arryn was referring to Robert Baratheon's seed, Lysa misunderstood him to be referring to Robert Arryn. The point of the quote, as it pertains to this thread, is that Lysa refers to "His (Jon's) seed." There was no reason for her to bring up the anecdote, and refer to Jon's seed. Nobody was questioning that Jon fathered Robert, and Lysa otherwise makes no effort to emphasize that Robert is Jon's, as someone who felt they needed to convince people of that would be likely to do frequently. And everything she says to Sansa and Petyr prior to her death supports the fact that the only child of Petyr's she ever carried was killed long ago.

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1 hour ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

You need to add "Maybe" as an answer.

"Maybe" is always the wise, safe answer.  But that's why there's no fun in it.  Nobody has to go out on a limb if they don't want to,  I just don't count it as a vote, unless you at least tell me which direction you are leaning.

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No.  I believe that she would have told Petyr especially when she told  him that she got pregnant with Petyr’s child at Riverrun when they were teenagers but that her father had the pregnancy terminated with moon tea, tansy, mint, wormwood and pennyroyal. 

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Wow. You like your polls. I guess they are fun. I think I would have to say no to this because I think Lysa would be more then happy to tell Petyr about his baby in truth. 

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3 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

"Maybe" is always the wise, safe answer.  But that's why there's no fun in it.  Nobody has to go out on a limb if they don't want to,  I just don't count it as a vote, unless you at least tell me which direction you are leaning.

I lean ever so slighly toward yes.

Simply because of her loveless relationship with Jon. We know she and LF have done it before, and they have been in cahoots for years while LF snaked his way up the ladders of finance. Did the potion she was forced to drink make her have all those stillbirths? Was it Jons age? IDK

That's why I say maybe.

Truly a hard one for me.

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Posted (edited)

I tend towards "yes".

As her name tells us, Lysa is very much about lies and lies have the tendency to contradict each other one day. To not be the (other) blackfish of her family she too has to find a balance between the values family, duty, honor. She can't be that if she raised a love child with Petyr next to a possible heir of house Arryn.

To become honorable Lady Arryn she had to kill Petyr's child. But to stay Lady Arryn with a possibly impotent husband she had to turn Petyr's later child into Jon's to do her duty as wife. No matter whose child it really is, it is family and so she loves it just the same. Family, duty, honor.

Edited by Haus Berlin

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Weak yes. Don't think we'll ever know for sure. 

GRRM at least wants us to wonder this otherwise he wouldn't give Robert LF-esque qualities. It's too dumb to believe that GRRM didn't know what he was suggesting to the reader here. As for Lysa not telling LF, she looovvvvveeeeedd being Lady Arryn and all the perks that came with it. Even admitting to herself that Robert might not be Jon's puts all of that at risk and makes her nothing. She has an astronomical capacity for denial and self-delusion. 

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Interesting subject. I do think that there is a chance. However, I do not think we have enough evidence to say Robert 'Sweetrobin' is not Jon's. Given what we are told I must decline this theory and say that he is a legitimate Arryn.

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Posted (edited)

Yes!

It won't probably be revealed, though. I believe not even Lysa knew/was sure that Robin is Petyr's.

Edited by LadyOlenna
grammar

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