Poll: Is Sweetrobin the Son of Littlefinger?

[Makk]

No, no chance Imo. If there was a chance lyssa would have said something completely different. 

[corbon]

No.

[Aurane]

Yes.

[Lynesse]

Yes.

Sweetrobin has brown hair and is unusually small for his age, just like Littlefinger. Jon Arryn was a tall, powerful man. (While we don't know for a fact if Harry the Heir having Jon Arryn's look in his youth extends to the coloring – Harry has sandy blond hair and blue eyes – this being brought up seems to me like another hint.) The Tullys are tall people (both Lysa and Catelyn are taller than Littlefinger; Hoster and Edmure are tall men) with auburn hair. So Sweetrobin has neither the Arryn look nor the Tully look, in a book in which mysteries concerning genetic traits play a large role.

Considering how obsessed with Littlefinger and how needy Lysa is, and that both of them lived at court, I find it impossible to believe that in all those years they never had sex. She would have demanded it eventually. We also know that Jon's two previous marriages were childless, his first wife giving him only one stillborn, his second wife apparently never even getting pregnant. Compare this to Littlefinger, who got Lysa pregnant only the second time they ever had sex.

GRRM likes irony. The man researching and discovering the “Baratheon” heirs to the Iron Throne not being Robert's children himself raising another man's child as his heir is ironic.

The only counterargument is Lysa not bringing this up in her rant to Littlefinger before he pushes her out the Moon Door. However, Lysa is clearly mentally unstable and delusional. I believe she deluded herself into believing her son is an Arryn, that she fulfilled her duty to provide the Arryn line with an heir. If she admitted, even to herself, that Sweetrobin is Littlefinger's son, that would mean her beloved son isn't an Arryn and certainly isn't Lord of the Vale.

[the trees have eyes]

No.  Lysa knows who she slept with and when.  Her history of miscarriages with Jon led to only one live birth, the sickly Robert.

I understand the appeal to some of Petyr unknowingly poisoning his own son but that's one of those "better" versions of the story than the one GRRM wrote that people come up with from time to time.

[Black Dragons]

Hell No!

[Aegon VII]

Yes. Littlefinger’s symbol being the mockingbird is as good as proof

[Bhain Shadowien]

I'm going to say Hard No. It's an interesting theory that does have a bit of weight, and Lysa constantly reminding everyone about Jon saying, 'The seed is strong' sounds more like she's trying to make it true, but the wording she uses when talking to LF before she dies is just too strong an obstacle, I think. This also seems like one of those situations where if it is true, we won't read about it in the books. That opportunity has come and gone. 

[Ser Leftwich]

We will never know. Also, it is irrelevant to the story.

[kissdbyfire]

5 hours ago, Sophia [email protected] said:

Hell No!

So. You think a number of dead characters are alive and involved in conspiracies and whatnot, and this is where you draw the line? 

[Platypus Rex]

2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

So. You think a number of dead characters are alive and involved in conspiracies and whatnot, and this is where you draw the line? 

Please don't taunt or otherwise engage in ad hominem attacks against the voters.  Thank you.  

[Platypus Rex]

3 hours ago, Ser Leftwich said:

We will never know. Also, it is irrelevant to the story.

Unless you object, I am counting this as a "No", more or less for the reason stated in the opening post.

[Black Dragons]

17 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

So. You think a number of dead characters are alive and involved in conspiracies and whatnot, and this is where you draw the line? 

Yeah because deep down I think that Littlefinger didn't like what happen between him and Lsya because he thinking of Cat at the time.  He knew how to string Lysa around till he didn't need her anymore.  Why piss off Lord Arryn? with screw his wife. 

ps What dead characters that I think is still alive? I think Ashara Dayne is still alive and maybe Aegon Targaryen.

[Sigella]

Leaning yes but rather uncertain. 

Pro:

- Lysa had lots of stillbirths and problems conceiving so maybe she finally resorted to LF's seed that she knew "worked"

- Sweetrobin having physical resemblance of Petyr

- Jon Arryn being described as; not being warm/having no bastards/being a good man and those things can be summed up in one word which is "sterile"

 

Con: 

- maybe over-use of cuckoo-kids

- I question whether Lysa would actually dare cheat on the Hand whilst in KL and whisperers are abound

- Lysas mis-interpretation of "the seed is strong" doesn't make much sense if SR wasn't in fact the result of a weak seed

[Springwatch]

No.

SR is a little falcon chick, with the looks and temperament to match.

[Nevets]

On 3/11/2019 at 8:17 PM, Platypus Rex said:

Thank you for your vote. 

People seem slow to vote on this one.  I guess it just doesn't excite people the way Daario=Euron excites people.

I think the slowness of the vote has more to do with the fact that the evidence on this one is more ambiguous than some of the others, for which there is little to no evidence.

I tend to think Jon Arryn is Robert's father but the idea of Petyr Baelish being his dad is far from ridiculous.  I think my biggest problem with it is that we have no clear way of finding out.  Lysa is dead, and Baelish is hardly a reliable source of information on much of anything.

So, count me as a NO.

[The Knight of Flours]

It's a red-herring I think, so no.

Sweetrobin is sickly as a result of Lysa's reproductive problems (a likely contributor to these issues - including her many miscarriages - being the tansy mixture given to her by her father).

[Ibbison from Ibben]

No.

Given Lysa's wedding night performance in Storm, if LF really was Sweetrobin's father everyone in the Red Keep and half of King's Landing would have known.

The better poll question would be  - is LF really that good in bed? If he is, how does that affect Sansa's story?

[Lost Melnibonean]

Yes...

From Sansa VI, Storm 68...

  Quote

"Oswell's brought some oranges and pomegranates from the King."

So, the oranges and the pomegranates were brought together...

  Quote

Grisel reappeared before he could say more, balancing a large platter. She set it down between them. There were apples and pears and pomegranates, some sad-looking grapes, a huge blood orange. The old woman had brought a round of bread as well, and a crock of butter. Petyr cut a pomegranate in two with his dagger, offering half to Sansa. "You should try and eat, my lady."

Not just an orange, but a blood orange...

  Quote

"Thank you, my lord." Pomegranate seeds were so messy; Sansa chose a pear instead, and took a small delicate bite. It was very ripe. The juice ran down her chin.

Can’t keep your hands clean with pomegranate seeds...

  Quote

Lord Petyr loosened a seed with the point of his dagger.

Doh! And there it is: the seed that Petyr loosened (or pried) from the pomegranate (or Jon Arryn) was wee Robert. Dig what he does with his seed...

  Quote

He brought the seed to his mouth with the knife. "In King's Landing, there are two sorts of people. The players and the pieces."

Well, we know Robert ain’t no player, and that poor little boy ain’t got long for this world, does he?

  Quote

He smiled, his thin lips bright red from the pomegranate seeds.

Yikes!

  Quote

Lord Petyr cut the blood orange in two with his dagger and offered half to Sansa.

Oh Sansa, just say no...

  Quote

He tilted his chin back and squeezed the blood orange, so the juice ran down into his mouth. "I love the juice but I loathe the sticky fingers," he complained, wiping his hands. "Clean hands,Sansa. Whatever you do, make certain your hands are clean."

Sansa spooned up some juice from her own orange.

Or just spoon it up, I guess...

  Quote

Make me a baby, Petyr," she screamed, "make me another sweet little baby."

Of course, the casual reader will begin to understand that to mean the fetus that Lord Hoster forced Lysa to abort. But perhaps Lysa is referring to a second son?

  Quote

"Jon Arryn was no dwarf, but he was old. You may not think so to see me now, but on the day we wed I was so lovely I put your mother to shame. But all Jon desired was my father's swords, to aid his darling boys. I should have refused him, but he was such an old man, how long could he live? Half his teeth were gone, and his breath smelled like bad cheese. I cannot abide a man with foul breath. Petyr's breath is always fresh . . . he was the first man I ever kissed, you know. My father said he was too lowborn, but I knew how high he'd rise. Jon gave him the customs for Gulltown to please me, but when he increased the incomes tenfold my lord husband saw how clever he was and gave him other appointments, even brought him to King's Landing to be master of coin. That was hard, to see him every day and still be wed to that old cold man. Jon did his duty in the bedchamber, but he could no more give me pleasure than he could give me children. His seed was old and weak. All my babies died but Robert, three girls and two boys. All my sweet little babies dead, and that old man just went on and on with his stinking breath. So you see, I have suffered too." Lady Lysa sniffed. 

I had always resisted this theory before, thinking that Lysa meant that all six of the pregnancies mentioned above were Jon’s, but I can see now that doesn’t necessarily follow. She says Jon could not give her children. That this follows the bit about Petyr loosening a seed earlier in the same chapter has caused me to change my mind about this theory.

I know some other proponents rely on wee Robert’s physical description to support the theory, but I don't think it matters. If the kid was blond and robust with facial features resembling Jon Arryn, the theory would have no legs. As it is though, there is a chance. 

Please keep in mind that this is a science fiction fantasy in which one of the main mysteries involved a subverted dynasty and was solved by a change in hair color. The author borrows from hard science when it suits him, but he is not bound by it. 

I like to imagine that Lysa told Petyr that the sickly little seed was his. If she had told him, he might have replied... "I know what I know, and so do you. Some things are best left unsaid, sweetling, especially when we are alone. Elsewise a day will come when a servant walks into a room unannounced, or a guardsman at the door chances to hear something he should not. Do you want blood on your pretty little hands, my darling? He is Jon's son, and he must be Jon’s son all the time. Even here. In your heart. Can you do that?" Of course, that would have been spoken in the godswood or wherever he and she conceived the little pomegranate seed. 

And he willl sweetsleep his son...

  Quote

He smiled, his thin lips bright red from the pomegranate seeds.

Sansa VI, Storm 68

[Lynesse]

9 hours ago, Ibbison from Ibben said:

No.

Given Lysa's wedding night performance in Storm, if LF really was Sweetrobin's father everyone in the Red Keep and half of King's Landing would have known.

"No." She stamped a foot. "I want you now, this very night. And I must warn you, after all these years of silence and whisperings, I mean to scream when you love me. I am going to scream so loud they'll hear me in the Eyrie!" (ASOS, Sansa VI)