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NFL Offseason 2019: Gettleman Browns all over the Giants


Jace, Extat

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I'm not a scout, but Haskins is not an appealing prospect to me.  I felt like he was really good when things were going well for Ohio State, but if things were going poorly he was a nonfactor.  That plus questionable accuracy adds up to a shaky qb to be taking in the first round. 

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13 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Oliver is probably because of character issues. There was the incident with his coach at Houston over the coat, and more recently I saw Philly took him off their board because his interview went so badly. 

Yeah, the coat incident looks bad, FOR THE COACH, which is why he got fired. Oliver could have punched him in the face over that and I’d still argue he was in the right.  

10 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

I'm not a scout, but Haskins is not an appealing prospect to me.  I felt like he was really good when things were going well for Ohio State, but if things were going poorly he was a nonfactor.  That plus questionable accuracy adds up to a shaky qb to be taking in the first round. 

He’s a career 70% passer through 22 games.

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Just now, Tywin et al. said:

He’s a career 70% passer through 22 games.

Sure, but reading scouting reports a lot of people say he doesn't hit guys in stride and has an occasional big miss on mid-range throws. 

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6 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Yeah, the coat incident looks bad, FOR THE COACH, which is why he got fired. Oliver could have punched him in the face over that and I’d still argue he was in the right.  

I couldn’t disagree more. The coach could have handled it better, but he’s the boss. Period. For Oliver to have to be held back by one of his teammates over something so stupid shows a serious lack of maturity. And like I said, he apparently also had a really bad interview with Philly. You asked why he might fall. Those are likely the reasons. 

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9 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Sure, but reading scouting reports a lot of people say he doesn't hit guys in stride and has an occasional big miss on mid-range throws. 

Most scouts are trash who bring their own biases into their evaluation. Once they decide they don’t like a guy, they manufacture reasons to justify their opinion. All you need to do is watch the tape. To me it’s pretty clear that Haskins is the best pro-style QB in an admittedly bad QB class.  

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6 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

I couldn’t disagree more. The coach could have handled it better, but he’s the boss. Period. For Oliver to have to be held back by one of his teammates over something so stupid shows a serious lack of maturity. And like I said, he apparently also had a really bad interview with Philly. You asked why he might fall. Those are likely the reasons. 

And said boss failed some basic leadership tests. If the best player in your school’s history wants to wear a coat because he’s cold, you let him wear that F’ing coat. He acted small and petty and that’s why he got s***canned.   

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5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Most scouts are trash who bring their own biases into their evaluation. Once they decide they don’t like a guy, they manufacture reasons to justify their opinion. All you need to do is watch the tape. To me it’s pretty clear that Haskins is the best pro-style QB in an admittedly bad QB class.  

Sure, NFL scouts are trash, whereas you're speaking the pure truth :rolleyes:

You're welcome to endorse the guy, but I don't see it.  Haskins never looked like an NFL quarterback when I watched OSU games. 

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1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

And said boss failed some basic leadership tests. If the best player in your school’s history wants to wear a coat because he’s cold, you let him wear that F’ing coat. He acted small and petty and that’s why he got s***canned.   

Nah, you don’t let one player do something the others can’t. Doesn’t matter who it is. 

But let’s just agree to disagree (as usual :P). I personally thought it looked pretty bad on both of them, but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t be down for the Bengals to take him if he fell to 11.

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58 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Sure, NFL scouts are trash, whereas you're speaking the pure truth :rolleyes:

You're welcome to endorse the guy, but I don't see it.  Haskins never looked like an NFL quarterback when I watched OSU games. 

There are three knocks on him, (i) he’s slow (legit), (ii) he played with other good players (lazy analysis, and the reverse argument was made for Darnold and Rosen last year), and (iii) he’s not 100% devoted to football (giant red flag that the scouts don’t like him for reasons they can’t actually explain).  

Also, I’m not sure why you don’t see him as a pro. He stands tall in the pocket, is willing to take the hit and can make all the throws. The only thing that he can’t really do is scramble.

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1 hour ago, Nictarion said:

Nah, you don’t let one player do something the others can’t. Doesn’t matter who it is. 

But let’s just agree to disagree (as usual :P). I personally thought it looked pretty bad on both of them, but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t be down for the Bengals to take him if he fell to 11.

You absolutely let your star player get away with things, especially when he’s the only 5 star recruit to ever play at your school and he came there because a different coach recruited him.

I get that it looked bad all around, but in that situation one person was a kid while the other was a grown man. And it was over a coat. A coat. A COAT! You have to be some kind of next level irredeemable jacka** to try and take a coat off of someone when they’re cold because you want to make a power move to show that you’re in charge.

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6 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

There are three knocks on him, (i) he’s slow (legit), (ii) he played with other good players (lazy analysis, and the reverse argument was made for Darnold and Rosen last year), and (iii) he’s not 100% devoted to football (giant red flag that the scouts don’t like him for reasons they can’t actually explain).  

Also, I’m not sure why you don’t see him as a pro. He stands tall in the pocket, is willing to take the hit and can make all the throws. The only thing that he can’t really do is scramble.

I expect NFL QB prospects to elevate their team, even if they're on a talented team like Ohio State.  That is what I saw in guys like Watson and Mayfield and Tua.  Haskins never really did that (at least in the 3-4 Ohio State games I saw of him).  He looks to me like a good college qb who executed at the level of his teammates, and that sounds like a guy who is going to get swallowed up by NFL defenses.

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24 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

I expect NFL QB prospects to elevate their team, even if they're on a talented team like Ohio State.  That is what I saw in guys like Watson and Mayfield and Tua.  Haskins never really did that (at least in the 3-4 Ohio State games I saw of him).  He looks to me like a good college qb who executed at the level of his teammates, and that sounds like a guy who is going to get swallowed up by NFL defenses.

To be clear, I don’t think he’s as good of a prospect as the three guys you listed, but I do think he’s the best QB in this draft class. I don’t expect him to be elite at the next level, but I do think he can be Jameis Winston like without the interceptions. That’s worth a top five pick in my book if you don’t have a QB.

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3 hours ago, Nictarion said:

I couldn’t disagree more. The coach could have handled it better, but he’s the boss. Period. For Oliver to have to be held back by one of his teammates over something so stupid shows a serious lack of maturity. And like I said, he apparently also had a really bad interview with Philly. You asked why he might fall. Those are likely the reasons. 

 

3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

And said boss failed some basic leadership tests. If the best player in your school’s history wants to wear a coat because he’s cold, you let him wear that F’ing coat. He acted small and petty and that’s why he got s***canned.   

 

3 hours ago, Nictarion said:

Nah, you don’t let one player do something the others can’t. Doesn’t matter who it is. 

But let’s just agree to disagree (as usual :P). I personally thought it looked pretty bad on both of them, but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t be down for the Bengals to take him if he fell to 11.

 

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

To be clear, I don’t think he’s as good of a prospect as the three guys you listed, but I do think he’s the best QB in this draft class. I don’t expect him to be elite at the next level, but I do think he can be Jameis Winston like without the interceptions. That’s worth a top five pick in my book if you don’t have a QB.

I knew there was a reason I kept you around like my own personal Oscar.

Tywin has the right of this. You absolutely make exceptions for your best players. Don't ask me, ask Bill Belichick. The trick is knowing to pick your battles. Lawrence Taylor can bust curfew and stumble hungover into the locker room a half hour before kickoff because he's the best player on your goddamn team and it isn't worth dying on that hill if he can play. The kid wanted a fucking coat! I don't care what stupid ass rule you may or may not have to assert your dominance (a sign of weakness, having to assert strength) you don't tell your Lawrence Taylor equivalent he can't wear a coat when he's cold. That's just stupid. Unrepentant idiocy, full stop.

Now the kid might also be a fucking headcase, in which case taking a stand over a coat looks even more ridiculous. But some of the great talents are weirdos. You have to decide if your HC can manage a strong personality. It isn't the kid's fault if a grown ass man can't figure out how to get a twenty-nothing-year-old to play a game for a lot of money. I mean it is, the kid should put in some effort and not be a prick, but the whole job of a coach is to COACH talent. I can't think of really anyone off the top of my head other than maybe Jamarcus Russell or Albert Haynesworth who was just completely irredeemable from a talent/effort perspective.

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40 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

 

 

 

I knew there was a reason I kept you around like my own personal Oscar.

Tywin has the right of this. You absolutely make exceptions for your best players. Don't ask me, ask Bill Belichick. The trick is knowing to pick your battles. Lawrence Taylor can bust curfew and stumble hungover into the locker room a half hour before kickoff because he's the best player on your goddamn team and it isn't worth dying on that hill if he can play. The kid wanted a fucking coat! I don't care what stupid ass rule you may or may not have to assert your dominance (a sign of weakness, having to assert strength) you don't tell your Lawrence Taylor equivalent he can't wear a coat when he's cold. That's just stupid. Unrepentant idiocy, full stop.

Now the kid might also be a fucking headcase, in which case taking a stand over a coat looks even more ridiculous. But some of the great talents are weirdos. You have to decide if your HC can manage a strong personality. It isn't the kid's fault if a grown ass man can't figure out how to get a twenty-nothing-year-old to play a game for a lot of money. I mean it is, the kid should put in some effort and not be a prick, but the whole job of a coach is to COACH talent. I can't think of really anyone off the top of my head other than maybe Jamarcus Russell or Albert Haynesworth who was just completely irredeemable from a talent/effort perspective.

I can. Vontaze Burfict. I watched him cost his team for years being undisciplined, selfish, lazy, and just all around a waste of potential. He was a 1st rd talent that went undrafted because of it. I’m not comparing Oliver to that level, but there are red flags for a team using such a high pick on him. 

I doubt he’ll even fall anyway. I just answered Tywin on why certain mocks think he might. But watch him go in the top 5 now. 

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3 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

but the whole job of a coach is to COACH talent. 

Not exactly. That's for position coaches, and to a much lesser extent, coordinators. The HC is much more like a band manager, counselor and public relations specialist all wrapped up into one thing. Direct coaching is not a big part of the job. That's why some great football minds are meant to only rise to the level of a coordinator. 

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Hoping for the Q. Bosa’s pretty foolproof, but his ceiling’s a lot lower than Williams imo and has some athletic limitations that means he’ll have to max out a lot on technique against better tackles. He’s kind of a lock for consistent pass rush numbers but I think better tackles can stone him.

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17 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Hoping for the Q. Bosa’s pretty foolproof, but his ceiling’s a lot lower than Williams imo and has some athletic limitations that means he’ll have to max out a lot on technique against better tackles. He’s kind of a lock for consistent pass rush numbers but I think better tackles can stone him.

I don't get the Bosa love. Williams looks like he could be a game wrecker. He's a lot bigger while being basically just as fast, and I suspect he is a good deal stronger than Bosa too. I wonder what his prospect grade would be if he was Nick Johnson and didn't have an All-Star brother in the league (worth noting that I said the same thing about TJ Watt, and he seems to be a stud like his brother).

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13 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I don't get the Bosa love. Williams looks like he could be a game wrecker. He's a lot bigger while being basically just as fast, and I suspect he is a good deal stronger than Bosa too. I wonder what his prospect grade would be if he was Nick Johnson and didn't have an All-Star brother in the league (worth noting that I said the same thing about TJ Watt, and he seems to be a stud like his brother).

My main problems with him are his short arms and meh explosion-related numbers. He’s an excellent technician, great..like really really great hands, great motor, smart, etc. He’s the kind of guy I can see better OT’s keeping quiet but he’ll eat up journeymen and back-ups for solid numbers probably from the get-go, and there IS value is having a high floor from. gM’s POV.

I agree on Williams being better in most athletic senses. Obviously the fear is one-year wonder and Bosa’s a better pure need fit for the Niners, but i’m really hoping for Q.

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25 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I don't get the Bosa love. Williams looks like he could be a game wrecker.

Unless they trade Thomas, and I saw rumors today that they're shopping him, there's not enough difference between Bosa and Q to justify taking the latter.  You always wanna go BPA but that's pretty much a toss-up anyway, so you go with the guy that is best positioned to help your team now.

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