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Three-Fingered Pete

Do You Think Sam Will Forge His Chain?

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On ‎3‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 7:56 PM, Platypus Rex said:

No.  Sam is dead.  He was put to bed by a faceless assassin.

 

On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 8:34 AM, Platypus Rex said:

It is a misinterpretation of the prophesy of the Ghost of High Heart.  Which actually refers to "Fake Pate" (Alchemist/Jaquen) standing on the bridge to the Isle of Ravens, wearing his new face -- that of the murdered Sam.

 

Something just occurred to me. This would be a fundamental shift of GRRM's narrative style to date. Could you explain how this would work narratively since that would mean one of our POV characters is dead, but still active in the story? Would we get POV chapters of this FM playing Sam or would we have a first in the form of a character that we have known before suddenly becoming a secondary antagonist only known to the reader?

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On 3/13/2019 at 7:56 PM, Platypus Rex said:

No.  Sam is dead.  He was put to bed by a faceless assassin.

 

On 3/17/2019 at 8:34 AM, Platypus Rex said:

It is a misinterpretation of the prophesy of the Ghost of High Heart.  Which actually refers to "Fake Pate" (Alchemist/Jaquen) standing on the bridge to the Isle of Ravens, wearing his new face -- that of the murdered Sam.

 

It is possible that Pate/Jaquen has replaced Sam but there isn't much to support the idea at this point.  We don't even know what Pate's mission is or if he is a rogue pursuing his own agenda.   Assassins don't kill everyone they come in contact with.  Leo Tyrell, Alleras and Marwyn are all still alive after all.  Meanwhile, as Pate, he is below the notice of most maesters and archmaester and he has a key that can open any door in the Citadel.  I'm looking forward to learning more about what he is doing there but I doubt that he has changed his plan, whatever it is, to kill Sam. 

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5 hours ago, White Ravens said:

It is possible that Pate/Jaquen has replaced Sam but there isn't much to support the idea at this point.  We don't even know what Pate's mission is or if he is a rogue pursuing his own agenda.   Assassins don't kill everyone they come in contact with.  Leo Tyrell, Alleras and Marwyn are all still alive after all.  Meanwhile, as Pate, he is below the notice of most maesters and archmaester and he has a key that can open any door in the Citadel.  I'm looking forward to learning more about what he is doing there but I doubt that he has changed his plan, whatever it is, to kill Sam. 

Marwyn, Alleras and Fake Pate are in league with each other.  Because obviously, Marwyn would not allow Real Pate to be present at a secret meeting.  

This cabal somehow knew that Sam was coming, whether due to glass candles, allies on the Cinnamon Wind, or something else.  Whatever their plans, they have had time to anticipate.

Pate was present while Sam was extensively interrogated.  This sets him up to have the knowledge necessary to impersonate Sam.  The text really emphasizes that Sam totally spills his guts, which is not really necessary if they all are going to have time to get to know each other gradually.

Marwyn wants to silence Sam … to make sure he does not talk to the Maesters (which is what Aemon asked Sam to do, as well as warning him not to be riddled by the Sphynx).  I don't think Marwyn's going to leave that to chance.

When they prepare to put Sam to bed, they send/take him to a deserted tower on an island.  The perfect place for a murder.

With Sam out of the way, Marvyn, a blood mage, now has Mance's kingsblood baby, Aemon's kingsblood corpse, and Aemon's books of lore.  I guess they can now wake the stone dragon, or otherwise do whatever evil magicians do with king's blood.  But wherever Marwyn is going, and whatever Marwyn is doing, his 2 friends will probably go with him. 

No Sam chapters appear in the second half of dance.

No Sam chapters have been reliably rumored to occur among those in Winds. 

 

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11 hours ago, Three-Fingered Pete said:

Something just occurred to me. This would be a fundamental shift of GRRM's narrative style to date. Could you explain how this would work narratively since that would mean one of our POV characters is dead, but still active in the story? Would we get POV chapters of this FM playing Sam or would we have a first in the form of a character that we have known before suddenly becoming a secondary antagonist only known to the reader?

The simplest solution would be for Sam to only appear in the POVs of other characters from now on.   I suppose.  But I just make theories.  I don't try to make them work out narratively, because that's the author's job.

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1 hour ago, Platypus Rex said:

The simplest solution would be for Sam to only appear in the POVs of other characters from now on.   I suppose.  But I just make theories.  I don't try to make them work out narratively, because that's the author's job.

 

1 hour ago, Platypus Rex said:

No Sam chapters appear in the second half of dance.

No Samwell chapters appear in Dance with Dragons.

Sam's last PoV was in Feast for Crows.

Remember that cavil?

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1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

 

No Samwell chapters appear in Dance with Dragons.

True, but not relevant to my argument.    What is relevant is the second half, where there could have been a Samwell chapter, but wasn't.

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5 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

The simplest solution would be for Sam to only appear in the POVs of other characters from now on.   I suppose.  But I just make theories.  I don't try to make them work out narratively, because that's the author's job.

 

Fair enough. It's just that you posted with such conviction that I thought you might have worked it out. We do have a half-template for the situation already in Catelyn. I doubt that we'll get POVs from her in the future, but she'll probably show up in other's. With her, however, everyone knows the score.

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