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U.S. Politics: Impoverished In Squalor


lokisnow

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3 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

Well, given how the Republican Party has acted in the past and the shit they have managed to have gotten away with, with their bogus scandals, I feel a bit like:

"Litigation Myth Number 8: In order to be successful a lawsuit must have merit."

Wow, is that statement the truth.  Meritless suits can hurt litigants tremendously if they are brought by a skilled litigator.

Much to everyone’s frustration.

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11 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

I don't know. It seems like baseless, pointless, and futile accusations and congressional hearings work just fine for Republicans. Why not somebody else for a change?

Or the democrats could cut their losses and maybe could focus more of their time attacking  him on things that are much easier to prove he’s actually doing/did. You know he’s been very war-hawkish in terms of Venezuela lately for instance. Haven’t really heard much outcry from them in regards to that when compared to a lot of their talk of Russia.  It’d only hurt Democrats to have Muller have to go in public to say that there’s no hard evidence of conspiracy.

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So your suggestion is that tactically, Democrats should listen to Trump saying he has been 'completely exonerated', nod, and move on?

And while he spends the next two years repeatedly denouncing Democrats for having falsely made up the whole thing, demanding investigations into Democrat collusion with the Russians, insisting that any and every subsequent Democrat charge is 'as phony as the Russia thing, which by the way was COMPLETELY PROVEN to be a Deep State conspiracy against me', what do you suggest the Democrats do then?

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34 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Or the democrats could cut their losses and maybe could focus more of their time attacking  him on things that are much easier to prove he’s actually doing/did. You know he’s been very war-hawkish in terms of Venezuela lately for instance. Haven’t really heard much outcry from them in regards to that when compared to a lot of their talk of Russia.  It’d only hurt Democrats to have Muller have to go in public to say that there’s no hard evidence of conspiracy.

They can and should do both. Read the Mueller report and see what it actually says and continue to pound on Trump for the things he's actually doing. There are still so many unanswered questions that a 4 page memo, written by a guy who auditioned for the AG job by sending a 20 page unsolicited memo to the AG saying the President cannot obstruct justice, isn't going to answer.

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2 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Or the democrats could cut their losses and maybe could focus more of their time attacking  him on things that are much easier to prove he’s actually doing/did. You know he’s been very war-hawkish in terms of Venezuela lately for instance. Haven’t really heard much outcry from them in regards to that when compared to a lot of their talk of Russia.  It’d only hurt Democrats to have Muller have to go in public to say that there’s no hard evidence of conspiracy.

Oh I don't really disagree with what you're getting at here, as I have a personal preference for not making up wild exaggerations or going into make shit-up-ism. And I believe there is still plenty to go after Trump on.

Much of my recent commentary here is just a reflection of my frustration and cynicism about American Politics, which is to wit: It just seems the Republican Party can get away with and even get rewarded for making up the most baseless and ridiculous accusations, conspiracies and fake scandals, while Democrats are always held to a standard of being responsible with facts.

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I think people need to not overreact here re: the implications for 2020. We still need to remember that

  • Trump won 2016 by securing a number of unlikely states by a ridiculously thin margin
  • ... while being notably more popular than he is now with his own camp, and being slightly less hated by a Dem electorate which is now eager as fuck to get rid of him
  • ... while having 4 years' worth of now-deceased senior voters behind him
  • ... while going up against a historically unpopular opponent who had just been stabbed in the back by the head of the FBI
  • ... and a shit-ton of other factors such as felon reenfranchisement, voter registration drives, etc.

Basically, the thing that will determine the election 20 months from now (!) isn't any of this Mueller stuff. It's whether the Dems elect a charismatic and/or young, SoMe-savvy candidate like Buttigieg who'll take a bite out of Trump's 2016 voters, or another Hillary Clinton (I'll let you decide who qualifies for that). This 'exoneration' will have strategic implications in the near future for both parties, sure. But it's not what's going to be on voters' minds November 2020.

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2 hours ago, Mexal said:

On the pus side, none of the Democrat candidates are actually talking about Russia or Mueller which is similar to 2018. 

There’s a pus side?

 

Jokes aside, this is probably the worst outcome possible for Democrats. Barr’s letter leaves enough room for Trump to claim victory while giving enough room for Democrats to say that it doesn’t clear him and the need to ask more questions for the rest of the Congressional session.

Great…..

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Dem's message should be that the media sensationalized and speculated about the investigation, that it did turn up a bunch of criminal acts by Trumps cohorts, and just move on and hammer Trump on locking kids in cages; on a tax 'cut' that benefitted the rich and corporations at the expense of the working and middle class; on trading in the language of hate; on voter suppression efforts; on dogwhistling to white supremacists, racists, and bigots; on creating a fake national emergency; on ingoring science; on selling-off our public lands to vampire corporations; on his fetishism of dictators and kleptocrats; on healthcare; on the assault on women's health; etc.

For the love of everything, stop watching TV news.  Tell your friends and relatives.  Punish these people selling tabloid content as journalism.  

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17 hours ago, Kalbear said:

His popularity is going to rise, and we will have 6 more years. 

I don't see how any of this is possible. Kalbear, did you forget to share those insider secrets that you had to sign that non-disclosure about? The truth would demand a war with Russia, you said.

 

Listen, folks here's tough talk time. If you thought Trump was smart enough to collude with ANYONE then you are just as much a mark as his supporters. You should get your own form of dummy hat to wear.

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Here's one undeniable fact - Trump has been in the media's spotlight since like October of 2015. Not a fucking single day has gone by without his name popping up like a herpes sore on our genitals. Its been 100% Trump 100% of the time. Why? Ratings. And why does he get ratings? My theory - Because Americans have been addicted to reality tv drama from the moment that garbage hit cable. Some people are decrying cable news as the problem here, some people are blaming social media, but the truth is we're a culture of messy drama addicts.  

So @Stego. you are half right. 

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16 minutes ago, Stego said:

Listen, folks here's tough talk time. If you thought Trump was smart enough to collude with ANYONE then you are just as much a mark as his supporters. You should get your own form of dummy hat to wear.

I suspect that if we ever see the report this will be a large factor in why more charges weren’t brought. Jr. very clearly agreed to work with an agent of Russia in exchange for a tangible benefit, but he also likely had no clue what he was doing. In America, if you’re poor and do that, it’s a crime, but if you’re rich, you just made a dumb mistake.

14 minutes ago, Relic said:

My theory - Because Americans have been addicted to reality tv drama from the moment that garbage hit cable.

O.J.

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Just one other thing I was thinking about is that we have no idea about any of the counter-intelligence conclusions from the Mueller report (i.e., was Trump compromised by business, financial or other considerations). Barr didn't address them in his memo.

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3 hours ago, denstorebog said:

I think people need to not overreact here re: the implications for 2020. We still need to remember that

  • Trump won 2016 by securing a number of unlikely states by a ridiculously thin margin
  • ... while being notably more popular than he is now with his own camp, and being slightly less hated by a Dem electorate which is now eager as fuck to get rid of him
  • ... while having 4 years' worth of now-deceased senior voters behind him
  • ... while going up against a historically unpopular opponent who had just been stabbed in the back by the head of the FBI
  • ... and a shit-ton of other factors such as felon reenfranchisement, voter registration drives, etc.

Basically, the thing that will determine the election 20 months from now (!) isn't any of this Mueller stuff. It's whether the Dems elect a charismatic and/or young, SoMe-savvy candidate like Buttigieg who'll take a bite out of Trump's 2016 voters, or another Hillary Clinton (I'll let you decide who qualifies for that). This 'exoneration' will have strategic implications in the near future for both parties, sure. But it's not what's going to be on voters' minds November 2020.

It also gives Pelosi space to slow down the impeachment train.

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2 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

Dem's message should be that the media sensationalized and speculated about the investigation, that it did turn up a bunch of criminal acts by Trumps cohorts, and just move on and hammer Trump on locking kids in cages; on a tax 'cut' that benefitted the rich and corporations at the expense of the working and middle class; on trading in the language of hate; on voter suppression efforts; on dogwhistling to white supremacists, racists, and bigots; on creating a fake national emergency; on ingoring science; on selling-off our public lands to vampire corporations; on his fetishism of dictators and kleptocrats; on healthcare; on the assault on women's health; etc.

For the love of everything, stop watching TV news.  Tell your friends and relatives.  Punish these people selling tabloid content as journalism.  

Yet when I broached the question of if Democrats;specifically left-leaning media outlets;  were over covering this you stated; This is a bunch of pedantic mealy-mouthed nothing.  So your point is that some Democrats and left-leaning media outlets talk about Russia a lot?  Big fucking deal.  

I bet in 2003-4 you were saying "jeez would you guys talk about something other than the Iraq War?".  There's plenty of room for all sorts of political discussion.  

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2 hours ago, Relic said:

I wrote this in early 2016, when i was convinced Trump would win. 

 

https://www.justapack.com/travel-can-trump-hate/

 

Addresses another huge issue i see in American culture, one that clearly contributes to how we got here. 

Nice column. 

Even scarier corollary to that stat, probably at least a third of the 36% of people who have a passport (have traveled to another country) were military on deployment and thus have a skewed take on the rest of the world (ie overwhelming hate and contempt for Iraq and Afghanistan and the peoples there that they were in). In other words, the numbers are probably even worse than you think. 

And if you were to factor out people who have gone to Canada or Mexico the numbers are probably even worse. Roundtrip Airfare to Europe or Asia for two probably costs at least $6,000 most of the time, so it's pretty out of reach for almost everyone.

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4 hours ago, Relic said:

I wrote this in early 2016, when i was convinced Trump would win. 

 

https://www.justapack.com/travel-can-trump-hate/

 

Addresses another huge issue i see in American culture, one that clearly contributes to how we got here. 

Quote

I think the answer is simple, and lies within the confines of one incredible statistic. This is a stat that blows my mind every time I check to reaffirm that it is actually true. 64 percent of Americans do not have a passport. That means that at least 64% of Americans have never left the U.S. The majority of citizens in the richest country in the world have NO IDEA what the rest of the world is like.

Add in those who do travel but only on mega environmentally toxic cruise ships and / or other travel bubbles like resorts -- they don't see the people or the country either, while creating even more ill will for US citizens by their ignorant, boorish, rude behavior, while gobbling up the resources of the country including bottled water. 

In the meantime, I'm surprised it took this long; however it seems to me everything still hangs on the fact that Mueller didn't find him innocent either.  There are lots and lots and LOTS of criminal activities to investigate and prosecute.  So he's complicit with Russia's activities, and for some damned reason the DOJ doesn't think that requesting in public venues the Russians to go after Hillary isn't collusion, well there's a lot.  And everyone around him was playing with Russians. and Getting Paid!

It's not over.  Just talk about the criminal activities on the record.  Let Russia take care of itself. (Or let the UK and the EU take care of Russia and its troll farms, along with FB.)

It
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