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The Marquis de Leech

Terrorist Attack at New Zealand mosques

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I have finally got around to writing a blog post on the Christchurch event. It has taken a few days to digest events to the point where I am capable of writing at length about it.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

She's not wrong IMO, except in calling Sam Harris a Liberal. He's certainly not that.

I apologise if this isn’t the place, but I’ve seen a few casual remarks about Sam Harris on the forum being ‘racist’, is there anything you found racist about the quote she’s points to, that Islam presents unique challenges? Some of Maher’s statements are a little crass, I’ll grant. But it seems very odd to suggest Harris’s criticism of Islam, even it were misguided (which I don’t think it is) could be a drop in the ocean compared to Trump. Trump spent his entire campaign repeatedly blaming Muslims for all and sundry, loudly and frequently. I don’t think we need to over-complicate this, just because MLK provided a handy quote for the occasion. We don’t need to look for a secret answer to who’s ‘legitimising’ this when Trump fits the bill so obviously.

Anyway, NZ have done fantastic work in such a short space of time being pro-active about making changes after this horrific event. Well done to them.

Edited by DaveSumm

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Kellyanne Conway just upped the stupid shit the Australian right-wingers have been saying, by urging Fox News viewers to read the manifesto in its entirety, because the guy doesn't just mention Trump but other stuff.

Quote

but he also said he aligns closely with the ideology of China, he said he’s not a conservative, he’s not a Nazi. I think he refers to himself as an ‘eco-naturalist’ or an ‘eco-fascist.

I don't think she understands the irony of what she said.

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16 hours ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

OK. This is genuinely creepy.

As you may know, Tarrant has lived in my home city of Dunedin for the past two years (specifically in the suburb of Andersons Bay). An ex-girlfriend of mine was looking for a place to rent recently, and actually went to his house a couple of weeks ago. The agent told her that the current occupant was intending to move back to Australia. Anyway, she actually saw his place, the computer, and the rest of his stuff - though the laundry door was apparently locked at the time.

I've told her to go to the Police.

Very creepy.

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8 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

I apologise if this isn’t the place, but I’ve seen a few casual remarks about Sam Harris on the forum being ‘racist’, is there anything you found racist about the quote she’s points to, that Islam presents unique challenges? Some of Maher’s statements are a little crass, I’ll grant. But it seems very odd to suggest Harris’s criticism of Islam, even it were misguided (which I don’t think it is) could be a drop in the ocean compared to Trump. Trump spent his entire campaign repeatedly blaming Muslims for all and sundry, loudly and frequently. I don’t think we need to over-complicate this, just because MLK provided a handy quote for the occasion. We don’t need to look for a secret answer to who’s ‘legitimising’ this when Trump fits the bill so obviously.

Anyway, NZ have done fantastic work in such a short space of time being pro-active about making changes after this horrific event. Well done to them.

I don't think there much of a question about whether Sam Harris is uniquely demonizing Islam among religions. He is and he does. In my view he is part of the Islamophobia problem, and functionally his rhetoric lends an air of intellectual and rational credibility to those who think he's a a voice of logic and rationality, particularly among those who see trump and his ilk as fools and buffoons. His statements on Islam aren't as benign as your euphemism that Islam presents unique challenges. He singles out Islam as being especially problematic for global order among all religions. He is stoking the fires of fear in Islam specifically.

Harris is a useful idiot for the IQ racists and Islamophobes at a minimum. But for Islamophobia, IMO, he's more than that.

I would argue that Harris' voice on Islam was less influential when the US president and his administration were not an outright Islamophobes. But now, with Islamophobia being a policy platform for a lot of politicians, Sam is adding fuel to the fire rather than lowering the temperature.

When you set yourself up as an influencer of social discourse and attitudes you can't disclaim all association with who you are influencing.

 

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Humanity - it never fails to disappoint at exactly the same time as it inspires:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/03/disgusting-new-scam-targets-christchurch-terror-attack-donations.html

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Despicable scammers are targeting people wanting to make donations to the victims of the Christchurch terror attack.

Westpac [Bank] has issued a public warning about an email scam seeking to profit off the public's grief.

"The scammers are sending out an email that carries Westpac branding," a bank spokesperson says.

"Customers can identify the scam by hovering over the link in the email - they will see the link will take them to a website called mothersawakening."

Anyone who receives this email is asked to forward it to [email protected]

 

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6 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Humanity - it never fails to disappoint at exactly the same time as it inspires:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/03/disgusting-new-scam-targets-christchurch-terror-attack-donations.html

 

Talk about first rate scumbaggery. 

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10 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I don't think there much of a question about whether Sam Harris is uniquely demonizing Islam among religions. He is and he does. In my view he is part of the Islamophobia problem, and functionally his rhetoric lends an air of intellectual and rational credibility to those who think he's a a voice of logic and rationality, particularly among those who see trump and his ilk as fools and buffoons. His statements on Islam aren't as benign as your euphemism that Islam presents unique challenges. He singles out Islam as being especially problematic for global order among all religions. He is stoking the fires of fear in Islam specifically.

Harris is a useful idiot for the IQ racists and Islamophobes at a minimum. But for Islamophobia, IMO, he's more than that.

I would argue that Harris' voice on Islam was less influential when the US president and his administration were not an outright Islamophobes. But now, with Islamophobia being a policy platform for a lot of politicians, Sam is adding fuel to the fire rather than lowering the temperature.

When you set yourself up as an influencer of social discourse and attitudes you can't disclaim all association with who you are influencing.

 

I won’t go into this any further here, but thanks for you response. I will point out that the ‘unique challenges’ quote I was taking from the video you posted. Maybe I’ll start a separate thread sometime in the future.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

I won’t go into this any further here, but thanks for you response. I will point out that the ‘unique challenges’ quote I was taking from the video you posted. Maybe I’ll start a separate thread sometime in the future.

Fair enough not to continue in this thread, but the exact quote is "unique problems" 2:44 to be sure we are referring to the same quote.

I'm going to come out and say something I didn't expect I would ever say. At this point, I don't support a total ban on semi-automatic rifles in NZ. The reason being that there are legitimate non-military / police uses for semi-autos in NZ. Some of the uses might be almost unique to NZ eg professional helicopter hunting of wild deer and goats, which serves both a commercial and conservation purpose. For hunters to be effective they actually need to use semi-automatic weapons, and heli hunting is the most practical and cost effective way of hunting deer and goats in many locations. There are 166 registered commercial hunters, and not all of them will do heli-hunting. So the number of people with a justified need for a semi-automatic rifle is very low. But I think they should be allowed to carry on their profession without interruption from the change in gun laws.

Edited by The Anti-Targ

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The SIS situation surprises exactly nobody:

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/385173/no-mention-of-right-wing-extremist-threats-in-10-years-of-gcsb-and-sis-public-docs?fbclid=IwAR0DE_Rmlg2nsVJZ8RgkJI4Leh5Ea58hZ2Tx2vPKa_fU-tlQUdVsiKUcHa4

They go after Leftists and Maori, obsess about ISIS, but can't be arsed keeping an eye on the far-right.

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Not surprising. SIS and GCSB will be staffed mainly by right of center white people, who don't see white activists as a threat.

 

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How a sensible country responds to ONE mass shooting:

Quote

All military-style semi-automatic weapons, assault rifles and high-capacity magazines will be banned in New Zealand following the mass shootings at two Christchurch mosques that killed 50 people, New Zealand's Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced on Thursday.

"On 15 March our history changed forever. Now our laws will too. We are announcing action today on behalf of all New Zealanders to strengthen our gun laws and make our country a safer place," Ardern said at a press conference in the New Zealand capital Wellington.

The announcement came after the country's cabinet agreed to overhaul the law and ban military-style semi-automatics and assault rifles 72 hours after the Christchurch attacks.

 

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Also note, guns are a privilege not a right here. We have no constitutional legislation that makes owning a gun something every person has a right to do. This means courts can't overturn any gun laws.

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2 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Also note, guns are a privilege not a right here. We have no constitutional legislation that makes owning a gun something every person has a right to do. This means courts can't overturn any gun laws.

I was listening to NPR this morning and they were interviewing gun owners in NZ and to a person they were supportive of the new law.  Nice to see gun owners with a sense of perspective and what is really important.

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Guy with Nazi swastika shirt stands outside a mosque in a different NZ city on at least one possibly two days and the police can't do anything except politely tell him to move on. Which he does, but I wonder what would have happened if he didn't move on. There are offenses around public offensive and disorderly behaviour.

A girls school continues to prohibit the wearing of the hijab because "it doesn't meet the dress code". It is possible to change a dress code and allow things for cultural or religious purposes. It's a Catholic school, so don;t know how many Muslim students there would be, but I can imagine a lot of Muslim families would want to send their daughters to a girls school, and possibly also a religious rather than secular school. Would be fine if all the teachers and staff were women, but that's not necessarily the case. I wonder where this one will land, because apparently a lot of the teachers at the school don't agree with the rule.

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1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Guy with Nazi swastika shirt stands outside a mosque in a different NZ city on at least one possibly two days and the police can't do anything except politely tell him to move on. Which he does, but I wonder what would have happened if he didn't move on. There are offenses around public offensive and disorderly behaviour.

The standard set by Brooker v. Police basically means you have to be inciting a riot to count as disorderly behaviour. This guy wasn't.

More effective, I think, would be a Harassment Order if he ever came back.

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10 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Also note, guns are a privilege not a right here. We have no constitutional legislation that makes owning a gun something every person has a right to do. This means courts can't overturn any gun laws.

They can't overturn any laws.

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3 hours ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

They can't overturn any laws.

True, but they can determine that laws are in breach of the Bill of Rights, and usually Parliament will listen and correct to such a determination. As gun ownership isn't in the Bill of rights, the courts can't make the determination.

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3 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

True, but they can determine that laws are in breach of the Bill of Rights, and usually Parliament will listen and correct to such a determination. As gun ownership isn't in the Bill of rights, the courts can't make the determination.

The courts issuing such a declaration has happened exactly once, on the prisoner voting issue, and the-then National Government's response was a deafening silence.

(The biggest effect NZBORA has had is on the case law in other areas. Brooker v. Police, for example, was a rejigging of case law to bring it into line. There was even a spectacular - and unrepeated - example of a judge deciding that burning the New Zealand flag on ANZAC day was "not disrespecting it", notwithstanding 1981 legislation).

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