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The Marquis de Leech

Terrorist Attack at New Zealand mosques

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On 3/23/2019 at 6:10 AM, Heartofice said:

I think the echo chamber nature of the internet means that if you only listen to stuff by many right wing commentators then when you hear someone like Harris or Ayaan Hirsi Ali speak then it will simply feed into your own prejudices and confirm what you already believe. I actually think Harris has a quite reasonable position on Islam and its pretty consistent with his views on religion in general. 


Jesus - are we really out here defending Sam Harris? He has a history of being Islamophobic & being racist as fuck. It's so weird to me to see people so taken with Harris and his kind. 'New Atheists' like Harris are part of the problem. 

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17 hours ago, Zorral said:

At this stage of the development of massive gun massacres, wherever they happen, whoever commits them: it isn't first and foremost about ideology or religion of any kind; it's about making the score.

It's about making the biggest kill, getting the most media coverage, going down into history.

NZ's prime minister is so wise she realized this.  She won't say his name.

 

I think it's a mistake to think of this in the same vein as mass shooters in the US, this was an explicitly political act by someone with an established fandom of Australian nazi figures and connection to other Nazis online. He wrote a manifesto that is filled with Nazi memes and misdirections to make fun of how the press would report it and he live streamed it on Facebook, both of which are intended to be acts of propaganda. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Raja said:

Jesus - are we really out here defending Sam Harris? He has a history of being Islamophobic & being racist as fuck. It's so weird to me to see people so taken with Harris and his kind. 'New Atheists' like Harris are part of the problem. 

Most of the folks I know who frequent those circles grew up in some kind of fundamentalist something-or-other household and get hyper-triggered by anything remotely religious or spiritual. I think that's why so many have a bug up their collective ass about progressive activism. They see women marching with signs and flash back to the time their mom's Christian book club tried to get Harry Potter pulled off the shelves of the school library, and they had to spend the rest of the year eating lunch in the bathroom...not uh, not talking about anybody specific of course.

Edited by Let's Get Kraken

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2 hours ago, Raja said:

Jesus - are we really out here defending Sam Harris? He has a history of being Islamophobic & being racist as fuck. It's so weird to me to see people so taken with Harris and his kind. 'New Atheists' like Harris are part of the problem. 

I wouldn’t feel the need to defend Harris except when people who obviously don’t listen to him accuse him of racism.

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1 hour ago, karaddin said:

I think it's a mistake to think of this in the same vein as mass shooters in the US, this was an explicitly political act by someone with an established fandom of Australian nazi figures and connection to other Nazis online. He wrote a manifesto that is filled with Nazi memes and misdirections to make fun of how the press would report it and he live streamed it on Facebook, both of which are intended to be acts of propaganda. 

I dunno -- this is certainly true.  But that doesn't erase the determination to make it in the fame game. He went to great pains of planning -- he wore a camera and did live-feed of his murders.

This is was a big part of Dylan Roof, for only one example.  He certainly seemed to authentically cherish racial hatred.  But he also wanted to be famous.

What all these people have in common, is a conviction of resentment and vicitimization, that they aren't praised and popular with their peers and / or women, and making it big on media becomes both revenge and solution.  The one exception to this I can think of is the guy who did Las Vegas -- nobody knows anything about him and his motivations yet, it seems.

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Zorral said:

I dunno -- this is certainly true.  But that doesn't erase the determination to make it in the fame game. He went to great pains of planning -- he wore a camera and did live-feed of his murders.

This is was a big part of Dylan Roof, for only one example.  He certainly seemed to authentically cherish racial hatred.  But he also wanted to be famous.

What all these people have in common, is a conviction of resentment and vicitimization, that they aren't praised and popular with their peers and / or women, and making it big on media becomes both revenge and solution.  The one exception to this I can think of is the guy who did Las Vegas -- nobody knows anything about him and his motivations yet, it seems.

 

 

One of the many ironies of these racial terrorists demonizing Islam is that their recruiting style really is right out of the ISIS playbook. They use social media to connect with young, angry males who feel ostracized by society, put all of their woes on a target group of people or ideology, then wind them into a violent outburst with the promise of fame/immortality.

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2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I wouldn’t feel the need to defend Harris except when people who obviously don’t listen to him accuse him of racism.

Yup. If you think he’s blatantly ‘racist as fuck’ you haven’t listened to him. 

I was gonna start a thread but right now I haven’t the time to make it anything other than a title and a place to take the discussion. We should move it from here though.

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As far as i know Harris is not a "blatant" racist, but a more subtle kind. He is articulate enough so is not that obvious (i guess), but he definitly has some blind spots (at the least). 

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1 hour ago, DaveSumm said:

Yup. If you think he’s blatantly ‘racist as fuck’ you haven’t listened to him. 

I was gonna start a thread but right now I haven’t the time to make it anything other than a title and a place to take the discussion. We should move it from here though.

Yeah I'm sure there is a better thread to be discussing this stuff.

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Ash Sarkar made a rather moving and insightful video on Christchurch. 

 

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On 3/25/2019 at 5:19 AM, Heartofice said:

I wouldn’t feel the need to defend Harris except when people who obviously don’t listen to him accuse him of racism.

As I brought him into this thread, I just want to put on record that I never accused him of racism (unless you consider Islamophobia to be a subset of racism, which it's not really, religious bigotry is a whole different thing to racism), and neither does the YouTube video. I do accuse him of being a useful idiot for racists though. 

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