red snow Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 On 7/18/2019 at 11:10 PM, maarsen said: I doubt that it will win. I loved the animation but the nudity will rub a lot of people the wrong way. I think if it's judged solely on the criteria of the award ( I know, I'm naive) it has a good chance as the animation was the standout of that show and anything else I've seen this year. But I'm not sure whether the emmys like Netflix so Teen Titans will probably win. At least they'll be able to find a clip to show at the rewards which is nice advertising. Editors probably need to start now to find a clip that doesn't involve nudity or sexual violence that they can use though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 The Witness was incredible to look at, I’m still trying to figure out how they did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maarsen Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 6 hours ago, Heartofice said: The Witness was incredible to look at, I’m still trying to figure out how they did it. There is an old technique called rotoscopy. Ralph Bakshi used it to do the first Lord of The Rings movie. He didn't have digital formats but worked in analogue. I suspect this is what was used using digital cameras. Violence never stopped an award being given but show pubic hair or a penis and those pearls are clutched in a death grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 2 hours ago, maarsen said: There is an old technique called rotoscopy. Ralph Bakshi used it to do the first Lord of The Rings movie. He didn't have digital formats but worked in analogue. I suspect this is what was used using digital cameras. Violence never stopped an award being given but show pubic hair or a penis and those pearls are clutched in a death grip. Nope. No rotoscoping, no mocap. Completely hand-done keyframe animation, per Alberto Mielgo. They used filmed footage for reference (IIRC, three female models/dancers/actresses are credited for having provided reference footage), but it was used to eyeball the animation rather than rotoscoping. There's an interview I missed, here, which goes into more details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 11 hours ago, Ran said: Nope. No rotoscoping, no mocap. Completely hand-done keyframe animation, per Alberto Mielgo. They used filmed footage for reference (IIRC, three female models/dancers/actresses are credited for having provided reference footage), but it was used to eyeball the animation rather than rotoscoping. There's an interview I missed, here, which goes into more details. That is just incredible then. I suspected it was live action and they had somehow managed to overlay visuals on the top, but it being keyframed is beyond amazing. There was something so hyper real about the movements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Yeah, Mielgo's really a visionary. Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse largely owes its aesthetic to the work he and his team did in pre-production, and the most iconic scene from it is pretty much straight from his storyboard/animatic. I suspect it won't win the Emmy for reasons stated, given how many people are too turned off by the content to actually realize how amazing it is on a technical level. It's easily, without a question, the most technically accomplished of the LD+R animations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Ran said: Yeah, Mielgo's really a visionary. Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse largely owes its aesthetic to the work he and his team did in pre-production, and the most iconic scene from it is pretty much straight from his storyboard/animatic. I suspect it won't win the Emmy for reasons stated, given how many people are too turned off by the content to actually realize how amazing it is on a technical level. It's easily, without a question, the most technically accomplished of the LD+R animations. If i was mielgo's agent I'd be strongly urging him to make something that doesn't have nudity in it. Collect the awards and offers that will follow. Then make whatever the hell he wants. But i guess things are going fairly well as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 5 hours ago, red snow said: If i was mielgo's agent I'd be strongly urging him to make something that doesn't have nudity in it. Collect the awards and offers that will follow. Then make whatever the hell he wants. But i guess things are going fairly well as is. He's already got an Emmy anyways, for his work on the Tron cartoon. People in the industry know who he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Ran said: He's already got an Emmy anyways, for his work on the Tron cartoon. People in the industry know who he is. Didn't realize he made the tron cartoon. I quite enjoyed that show. If he's already well known i guess he can do whatever he wants for a while without too many restrictions being placed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Again, nudity and sex wasnt the problematic part of the witness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 I wasn’t a fan of the story or the sex in the Witness at all I’ll admit, but was it problematic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gronzag Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 There was nothing problematic about it, for me or anyone I know who watched it. It's just that some people are desperate to impose their beliefs on others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted July 22, 2019 Author Share Posted July 22, 2019 I thought it was problematic in the fact it was rubbish. I mean, arresting visuals, but the story and characterisation was utterly non-existent and the "twist ending" was boringly predictable. It was, I think, by far the weakest story of the entire series, no matter how striking it was to look at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 6 hours ago, Kalbear said: Again, nudity and sex wasnt the problematic part of the witness. But problematic from an emmy award, maybe? 2 minutes ago, Werthead said: I thought it was problematic in the fact it was rubbish. I mean, arresting visuals, but the story and characterisation was utterly non-existent and the "twist ending" was boringly predictable. It was, I think, by far the weakest story of the entire series, no matter how striking it was to look at. I agree the story was non existent and the twist head-scratching. The animation was still spectacular though. Would have been awful if longer than 5 minutes though. I wonder when they'll announce the writers and whether joe Abercrombie will be involved? See the Abercrombie thread for more details but essentially Joe was a creative advisor on the new Miller driven terminator film and therefore might be on miller's radar when looking for season 2 writers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 14 minutes ago, Werthead said: I thought it was problematic in the fact it was rubbish. I mean, arresting visuals, but the story and characterisation was utterly non-existent and the "twist ending" was boringly predictable. It was, I think, by far the weakest story of the entire series, no matter how striking it was to look at. The twist ending really didn’t make a lot of sense and was just a way for the makers to go ‘ahaaa’. I didn’t like it and actually the whole thing was pretty boring outside of what it looked like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted July 22, 2019 Author Share Posted July 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, red snow said: I wonder when they'll announce the writers and whether joe Abercrombie will be involved? See the Abercrombie thread for more details but essentially Joe was a creative advisor on the new Miller driven terminator film and therefore might be on miller's radar when looking for season 2 writers. I'm hoping they get Kameron Hurley on board. One of the Bel Dame Apocrypha shorts from Apocalypse Nix being made into an episode would be sensational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Werthead said: I'm hoping they get Kameron Hurley on board. One of the Bel Dame Apocrypha shorts from Apocalypse Nix being made into an episode would be sensational. I've heard that series is good. I couldn't get into her mirror wars fantasy series. Richard Morgan seems a perfect fit for the type of stories this show goes for. Problem might be the lack of existing short stories. But i guess he could cook something up from his non kovacs books. Maybe a race from "market forces" for example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 7 hours ago, Heartofice said: The twist ending really didn’t make a lot of sense and was just a way for the makers to go ‘ahaaa’. I didn’t like it and actually the whole thing was pretty boring outside of what it looked like. The funny thing about "the twist" is that it's already spelled out at the start -- when she wakes up, there's a guy sleeping in the bed, who's clearly the man chasing her. More broadly speaking, the short film is a metaphor for toxic relationships based on sex and obsession which get trapped in loops of desire -> abuse -> reconciliation, ad nauseum. So as far as that goes, it actually has a clearly point of view and actually has something to say, which for me puts it above a number of the other stories. She runs from him, is caught, murders him... then chases him, catches him, and is murdered by him, and it goes on and on. "The Dump" and "Fish Night" are thin joke stories (the latter is, at least, beautiful), "Blindspot" and "Sucker of Souls" have nothing really to say (it does bug me a bit that Tim Miller apparently adored the latter and asked the writer to visit the characters again in a new story; they were slight caricatures of hard-bitten mercenaries with potty mouths, but whatever floats his boat). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 That's an interesting take on the story, or at least metaphor, of the witness. I guess it is the most arty of episodes and not just in visuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Triskele said: Was Fish Night not markedly similar to the story of Icarus? I hope it's clear that I refer to the Greek Legend rather than the Russian doping scandal documentary. It's an ancient trope. I guess the main difference is that the fish are predators while the sun is just the sun making it entirely Icarus's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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