Events you are most looking forward to see in TWOW

[hnv]

Some big character dying. Hopefully Jaime and\or Brienne

[honeyed chicken]

I was just looking up at the July picture of my ASOIAF calendar in which is Dany emerging from the fire with baby dragons. I had an appointment slip paperclipped to the illustation and it covered the dragon in the picture. Without the dragon, the pic could be Cersei on her walk of shame.

It hit me then, the parallels between the two women: both went through a trial by fire (literal in Dany's case and metaphorical in Cersei's). Dany came out to find her people, few as they were, humbled before her. Cersei went before the masses and was herself humbled.

From these two very different trials they built toward a confrontation that I can't imagine George will shy away from in the book. You'd think it has to happen, but with more two it.

The big question for me: are Dany and Cersei half sisters?

GOT does not to my recollection mention Aerys' obsession with Joanna Lannister. Based on what we know, it seems likely Cersei is Aerys' child and Jamie is Tywin's. There's a name for that kind of twin (and I don't mean "impossible" or even "unlikely"), but I forget what it is. That's what I want to find out, though that question may well not be answered till APOS, if ever.

[kissdbyfire]

5 hours ago, honeyed chicken said:

The big question for me: are Dany and Cersei half sisters?

No. IMO, of course.

But Martin has talked about parallels in their (Dany's and Cersei's) stories.

[honeyed chicken]

4 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

No. IMO, of course.

But Martin has talked about parallels in their (Dany's and Cersei's) stories.

I figured It  would have been discussed somewhere - and like as not there's a thread or two on Westeros about it.

Cersei just seems so very Aerys like that even if we hadn't know about his "taking liberties" with Joanna at the bedding, I would have suspected a tie of some sort.

[The Ghost Beyond the Wall]

An acknowledgement that Sandor Clegane is alive on the Quiet Isle and has found peace, Sansa defeating LF, Jon putting an end to Ramsay Bolton, Daenaerys reclaiming Dragonstone for House Targaryen, the dragons burning the slavers army

[CandleWisps]

Pretty much an endless list! As someone else mentioned, there probably isn't a single thing I'm not dying to see. To reiterate some other folks:

-Anything Davos, Rickon, and Osha; having Skagos fleshed out to any degree. (Hopefully a scene of Rickon going ham and kicking Davos in the shin)

-Everything Stoneheart and the Riverlands, including "Cat's" reactions towards Edmure and Blackfish, how the Riverlords might react to a freed (or dead) Edmure. The Lannisters have their hostages, but I'd love to have some scheming w/Tytos Blackwood, Jason Mallister, etc. Anything to give me more Tytos sass.

-Introduction of Willas Tyrell! A Willas POV might even put me in a coma, I feel like he's so slept on. And if his intro comes after some deaths in the family, I'll be intrigued how he takes it/where Tyrell allegiances shift.

-Grand Northern Conspiracy. Need me some more Wyman.

-Theon interacting with literally any of the Starks (preferably NOT Bran or Rickon, as I've wanted to see how it plays out with the sibs who still think he was responsible for their deaths)

-Mance's storyline. Does he die off-page and without glory, is Melisandre's and his ruse ever discovered by the wildings at large, etc?

-Legitimate repercussions to Jon's resurrection. Someone once threw out the idea of not getting any Jon POV's in Winds (or at least not till the end of Winds), so that any internal changes are kept mysterious till later on. I'd love to see something along that line, whether or not he comes back any more malicious or not.

-LADY NYM IN KING'S LANDING. GIVE IT TO ME.

-Marwyn: anything Marwyn. A POV would be out of this world from him, any possible connections to Quaithe and/or other "mystically associated" persons, maybe further mention of his time in Asshai being relevant to Dany's journey "to go west you must go east...must pass beneath the Shadow" etc.

-The High Septon = Howland Reed

-NEED.MORE.OTHER.SIGHTINGS. I want more WW culture, more fleshing out of their goal, their history with the Starks, etc.

I'll take it all, including 200 pages of feasts that make me jealous and fashion that makes me want to abandon the city and go trudging through the snow in thick winter furs

 

[honeyed chicken]

7 hours ago, CandleWisps said:

Pretty much an endless list! As someone else mentioned, there probably isn't a single thing I'm not dying to see. To reiterate some other folks:

-Anything Davos, Rickon, and Osha; having Skagos fleshed out to any degree. (Hopefully a scene of Rickon going ham and kicking Davos in the shin)

-Everything Stoneheart and the Riverlands, including "Cat's" reactions towards Edmure and Blackfish, how the Riverlords might react to a freed (or dead) Edmure. The Lannisters have their hostages, but I'd love to have some scheming w/Tytos Blackwood, Jason Mallister, etc. Anything to give me more Tytos sass.

-Introduction of Willas Tyrell! A Willas POV might even put me in a coma, I feel like he's so slept on. And if his intro comes after some deaths in the family, I'll be intrigued how he takes it/where Tyrell allegiances shift.

-Grand Northern Conspiracy. Need me some more Wyman.

-Theon interacting with literally any of the Starks (preferably NOT Bran or Rickon, as I've wanted to see how it plays out with the sibs who still think he was responsible for their deaths)

-Mance's storyline. Does he die off-page and without glory, is Melisandre's and his ruse ever discovered by the wildings at large, etc?

-Legitimate repercussions to Jon's resurrection. Someone once threw out the idea of not getting any Jon POV's in Winds (or at least not till the end of Winds), so that any internal changes are kept mysterious till later on. I'd love to see something along that line, whether or not he comes back any more malicious or not.

-LADY NYM IN KING'S LANDING. GIVE IT TO ME.

-Marwyn: anything Marwyn. A POV would be out of this world from him, any possible connections to Quaithe and/or other "mystically associated" persons, maybe further mention of his time in Asshai being relevant to Dany's journey "to go west you must go east...must pass beneath the Shadow" etc.

-The High Septon = Howland Reed

-NEED.MORE.OTHER.SIGHTINGS. I want more WW culture, more fleshing out of their goal, their history with the Starks, etc.

I'll take it all, including 200 pages of feasts that make me jealous and fashion that makes me want to abandon the city and go trudging through the snow in thick winter furs

 

Nice list!

- Skagos could be interesting, maybe . . . or not.

- I haven't warmed to Stoneheart yet - we haven't seen enough. Depends how her Jaime confrontation plays out.

- Willas, yeah the whole Tyrell storylinegot wrapped up so completely and neatly in what was it it s6 (maybe Lady O made it to s7?)? That didn't feel right to me and certainly hope it doesn't go that way in the books. For one thing, I want to see the Roses against the Kraken.

- Last time we saw Wyman, he had his guts spilled from a Frey sword. Seems likely to me he doesn't make it and it's down to his surviving son if there's to be a GNC.

- Do you think Theon and Asha actually make it alive out of Stannis's frozen mess of an assault on WF? I know he and she lived till S8 in GOT, but so did Beric and he died back in ASOS. 

- More Mance means more Ramsay - ugh! I guess there's no way around that. The Bastard of Bolton will be in the thick of things no matter what. I do actually hope he has a demise similar to the show one. Roose, no idea what George has in store for him.

- Hard to imagine Jon not being in the thick of TWOW. And I suppose there will have to be repercussions to that reawakening.

- Lady Nym and her sisters . . . yes she should be an interesting story. Nym and Cersei, hmmm. But you don't mention Nym's sisters in the south - her cousin, Arianne heading toward a meeting with Jon Con and fAegon. That's a story line I want to see played out.

- I didn't see enough Marwyn to get a sense of whether he'd be interesting or not.

- Howland reed in any form.

- enough with the zombies! We hates them, precious!

- I would add too Victarion and Moquorro plus dragon horn vs. the 3 dragons. That should be interesting.

 

 

[argonak]

I want plotline conclusion and to finnally get to the meat of the Others. 

[CandleWisps]

On 7/25/2019 at 4:01 AM, honeyed chicken said:

Nice list!

Thanks!

On 7/25/2019 at 4:01 AM, honeyed chicken said:

- I haven't warmed to Stoneheart yet - we haven't seen enough. Depends how her Jaime confrontation plays out.

I love, love, love LS, but at this point it's mostly due to her storyline's thematic presence, how it's a compare and contrast to the journeys of both her daughters, and how her resurrection has affected her connection to her House words and the like. "Family, Duty, Honor". There are some who theorize she might go so far as to kill Edmure because of Roslin, and while I don't want Edmure to die, I really want to see how all this ties together. But yes I agree, her confrontation with Jaime is probably one of the Top 10 interactions I'm looking forward to the most--the convo between them in Clash where they have their little heart-to-heart is still one my favorites.

On 7/25/2019 at 4:01 AM, honeyed chicken said:

- Willas, yeah the whole Tyrell storylinegot wrapped up so completely and neatly in what was it it s6 (maybe Lady O made it to s7?)? That didn't feel right to me and certainly hope it doesn't go that way in the books. For one thing, I want to see the Roses against the Kraken. 

Roses vs Kraken, bring it on! I really, really don't want to lose Garlan Tyrell, but I mean if he's heading off now to directly take on the Euron threat...yikes, buddy. And yeah, it was definitely wrapped up too neatly, but that's because D&D can only write for monetary reasons, offing off relevant characters to save them the $$. The Tyrells aren't going down in one fell swoop, and I personally like to think Willas has something up his sleeve.

On 7/25/2019 at 4:01 AM, honeyed chicken said:

- Last time we saw Wyman, he had his guts spilled from a Frey sword. Seems likely to me he doesn't make it and it's down to his surviving son if there's to be a GNC.

I actually hold a good amount of hope for Wyman's survival! He almost had his throat slit, and the Frey had managed to cut through "three of his four chins", but a maester was tending to him and that scene didn't hold an awful lot of urgency as to his potential demise. At least, not my reading of it. Roose was still making orders to Wyman, and the Manderly knights didn't seem to be as panicked as they should have been if he was going to actively die. Even so, if the Badass of Frey Pies doesn't make it, I'm still down for his son.

On 7/25/2019 at 4:01 AM, honeyed chicken said:

- Do you think Theon and Asha actually make it alive out of Stannis's frozen mess of an assault on WF? I know he and she lived till S8 in GOT, but so did Beric and he died back in ASOS.

I definitely think Theon survives: he still has too much left in regards to his Stark family ties to do, at least in culminating his character arc; George can always pull a fast one, but I don't see Theons death in the cards quite yet. Asha on the other hand, I'm not sure of. As you say the show kept her around, but the show also cut her other two uncles, and she was left as the Iron Islands rep, so to speak. I'm not sure what significance she has left, so I'm 50/50.

On 7/25/2019 at 4:01 AM, honeyed chicken said:

- More Mance means more Ramsay - ugh! I guess there's no way around that. The Bastard of Bolton will be in the thick of things no matter what. I do actually hope he has a demise similar to the show one. Roose, no idea what George has in store for him.

I would gladly take more Mance without having to deal with more Ramsay, but what are you gonna do :/ Give him his fate by hounds, and I'm good. As far as Roose goes...not gonna lie, I'm a fan of the Bolt-on theory, no matter how wild.

On 7/25/2019 at 4:01 AM, honeyed chicken said:

- Lady Nym and her sisters . . . yes she should be an interesting story. Nym and Cersei, hmmm. But you don't mention Nym's sisters in the south - her cousin, Arianne heading toward a meeting with Jon Con and fAegon. That's a story line I want to see played out.

I'm excited for anything and everything Sand Snakes, always. Tyene and Sarella/The Sphinx are my favorites of the lot, but I think I'm mostly excited for Nym's interactions with everyone at Court. Does she go the way of her father and low-key antagonize evryone she meets, or does she play it straight while Tyene skulks around as a septa and poisons everyone? Possibilities galore, but Nym's perspective brings in the other KL players.

On 7/25/2019 at 4:01 AM, honeyed chicken said:

- I didn't see enough Marwyn to get a sense of whether he'd be interesting or not.

Any man who upsets the status quo at the Citadel is aces in my book

On 7/25/2019 at 4:01 AM, honeyed chicken said:

- I would add too Victarion and Moquorro plus dragon horn vs. the 3 dragons. That should be interesting.

Agreed--I'm especially excited to see whether Dany will even be present for any of that yet, or if it's something the Meereen team will have to handle themselves.

[Jekse]

The continuation of Theon's character. Out of all the POV characters I've always resonated with him the most. The Theon I sample chapter offered a lot of great insight as to what is going to happen in the Battle of Ice but Theon was only really a pair of eyes in that chapter. 

Also exploring the Land of Always Winter which George said we will explore a lot in the last two books.
 

[honeyed chicken]

On 7/26/2019 at 12:18 PM, CandleWisps said:

I love, love, love LS, but at this point it's mostly due to her storyline's thematic presence, how it's a compare and contrast to the journeys of both her daughters, and how her resurrection has affected her connection to her House words and the like. "Family, Duty, Honor". There are some who theorize she might go so far as to kill Edmure because of Roslin, and while I don't want Edmure to die, I really want to see how all this ties together. But yes I agree, her confrontation with Jaime is probably one of the Top 10 interactions I'm looking forward to the most--the convo between them in Clash where they have their little heart-to-heart is still one my favorites.

I guess for me LS was just one more dark, nasty presence in a book too full of them. Brienne has just barely escaped Rorge and Biter, then Stoneheart with all kinds of unfair accusations . . . I start to lose interest. The confrontation with Jaime has a small bit of potential to become intriguing, but for me that's mostly because Jaime's journey through the books and his transformation after losing his sword hand has a lot of humanity in it - as opposed to the show Jaime who really didn't ever come all the way clean. And I hope there is no Jaime/Brienne romance in the books.

On 7/26/2019 at 12:18 PM, CandleWisps said:

Roses vs Kraken, bring it on! I really, really don't want to lose Garlan Tyrell, but I mean if he's heading off now to directly take on the Euron threat...yikes, buddy. And yeah, it was definitely wrapped up too neatly, but that's because D&D can only write for monetary reasons, offing off relevant characters to save them the $$. The Tyrells aren't going down in one fell swoop, and I personally like to think Willas has something up his sleeve.

I hope so too. The Tyrells got used badly in the show, and I hope there's a little more complexity to their story line in TWOW. Complexity is George Martin's middle name so I don't worry on that score, but he has not given us a single Tyrell POV yet, while there have been a number of Martell ones. If I had to guess I'd say we're more likely to see Martell/fAegon/JonCon than Tyrell v Euron, which is too bad.

On 7/26/2019 at 12:18 PM, CandleWisps said:

I actually hold a good amount of hope for Wyman's survival! He almost had his throat slit, and the Frey had managed to cut through "three of his four chins", but a maester was tending to him and that scene didn't hold an awful lot of urgency as to his potential demise. At least, not my reading of it. Roose was still making orders to Wyman, and the Manderly knights didn't seem to be as panicked as they should have been if he was going to actively die. Even so, if the Badass of Frey Pies doesn't make it, I'm still down for his son.

You're right - it was Wyman's chins, not his belly (I was wrong about that) . . . a GNC would be welcome in my books, whether Wyman or Willas (?). It just feels like the right next step. The Boltons are not liked in the north, and while the Karstarks may hate Rob, almost none of the rest of the north does.

On 7/26/2019 at 12:18 PM, CandleWisps said:

I definitely think Theon survives: he still has too much left in regards to his Stark family ties to do, at least in culminating his character arc; George can always pull a fast one, but I don't see Theons death in the cards quite yet. Asha on the other hand, I'm not sure of. As you say the show kept her around, but the show also cut her other two uncles, and she was left as the Iron Islands rep, so to speak. I'm not sure what significance she has left, so I'm 50/50.

Again, you're probably right. I find Theon to be a pain & a bore, but George can't seem to let him go. Theon is like his binky or something . Asha could well be lost. But what of Stannis? That really can't play out the same in the books can it? Sacrificing his daughter like that? Something weird is going to happen with him, but the one thing I'm sure if is it won't be like GOT.

On 7/26/2019 at 12:18 PM, CandleWisps said:

I would gladly take more Mance without having to deal with more Ramsay, but what are you gonna do :/ Give him his fate by hounds, and I'm good. As far as Roose goes...not gonna lie, I'm a fan of the Bolt-on theory, no matter how wild.

I like Mance too, but don't like his survival chances.

I've forgotten, what is the Bolt-on theory?

On 7/26/2019 at 12:18 PM, CandleWisps said:

I'm excited for anything and everything Sand Snakes, always. Tyene and Sarella/The Sphinx are my favorites of the lot, but I think I'm mostly excited for Nym's interactions with everyone at Court. Does she go the way of her father and low-key antagonize evryone she meets, or does she play it straight while Tyene skulks around as a septa and poisons everyone? Possibilities galore, but Nym's perspective brings in the other KL players.

More Sand Snakes would be good. What I most want, however, is some more Darkstar Dayne, and to find out what his deal is. If he's half the swordsman his uncle was, and he's bpr (bitter, petty, and resentful) so much the better - especially if he shows up in KL - maybe as secret lover and co-conspirator to Lady Nym?

On 7/26/2019 at 12:18 PM, CandleWisps said:

Any man who upsets the status quo at the Citadel is aces in my book

I agree with that, and it seems likely Sam will upset the applecart quite successfully on his own. And what about Pate/Jaqen H'ghar? What the heck is he up to? Is he going after Marwyn or is he there for Sam or . . . ? I would love to see 6 or 10 Sam POVs from the Citadel.

On 7/26/2019 at 12:18 PM, CandleWisps said:

Agreed--I'm especially excited to see whether Dany will even be present for any of that yet, or if it's something the Meereen team will have to handle themselves.

My expectation is that Dany is about to get herself a khalasar and lead them back to Meereen in time to join the big fight. The bad guys are going to get their asses whupped - I think we can agree on that. The question is who comes out of Victarion + Moqorro + horn vs dragons vs Barrsitan + Tyrion + Unsullied + (maybe) Dany + khalasar? Is it going to be as simple as Dany is queen again with Tyrion as Hand of the Queen and Victarion just provides transport back to Westeros (seems unlikely)? Will all three dragons survive? So many possibilities.

I take it you've read the leaked chapters? Clever how none of them answer any hard questions, nor I suppose, should they. The Allayne chapter really whet my appetite for more of Sansa and Harry the Heir. I wouldn't mind seeing Sansa mature toward a future as Queen in the North. Likewise the Mercy chapter leads me to think Arya very well could pull off the Frey massacre as portrayed in the TV show - or something a little like it.

[kissdbyfire]

56 minutes ago, honeyed chicken said:

And I hope there is no Jaime/Brienne romance in the books.

 

only in the novels can a romance between Brienne and Jaime ever happen. What happened in the abomination was only a very poor version of "wham bam" w/o the "thank you ma'am". 

[argonak]

On 7/27/2019 at 5:07 PM, honeyed chicken said:

You're right - it was Wyman's chins, not his belly (I was wrong about that) . . . a GNC would be welcome in my books, whether Wyman or Willas (?). It just feels like the right next step. The Boltons are not liked in the north, and while the Karstarks may hate Rob, almost none of the rest of the north does.

Again, you're probably right. I find Theon to be a pain & a bore, but George can't seem to let him go. Theon is like his binky or something . Asha could well be lost. But what of Stannis? That really can't play out the same in the books can it? Sacrificing his daughter like that? Something weird is going to happen with him, but the one thing I'm sure if is it won't be like GOT.

My expectation is that Dany is about to get herself a khalasar and lead them back to Meereen in time to join the big fight. The bad guys are going to get their asses whupped - I think we can agree on that. The question is who comes out of Victarion + Moqorro + horn vs dragons vs Barrsitan + Tyrion + Unsullied + (maybe) Dany + khalasar? Is it going to be as simple as Dany is queen again with Tyrion as Hand of the Queen and Victarion just provides transport back to Westeros (seems unlikely)? Will all three dragons survive? So many possibilities.

I don't see how Stannis could be the one to burn Shireen, as she's several hundred miles away at the wall through quite a lot of snow.  But I suspect Melisandre is going to burn the poor girl when she thinks Stannis is dead.

Yeah, I could see George having the Dothraki help out at the battle.  Mongol armies were able, under the right circumstances, to travel at great speed, possibly 60-100 miles a day if they have enough remounts.  If Dany wins the loyalty of all the dothraki, she could break off a piece of them and send them racing to Mereen to save the city.  Thats a week of very difficult travel to fight a battle, but with the complete surprise and terror of them being Dothraki I think they'd probably win.  Not to mention Dany riding Drogon would tip the balance.  It would be a pretty epic scene of the city getting saved.

[Tyrion1991]

- Battle of Fire. Specifically what happens to Jorah and the other two dragons. 

- Dany conquering Essos 

- Dany meeting Jorah, Tyrion, Moqorro, Vic (if he’s alive) and the fallout of Quentin.

- What’s Euron gonna pull at Oldtown. “The Kraken awakes!”

- Lynesse Hightower showing up

- Aegon in the Stormlands. It’s a coin toss between him being amazing or a train wreck.

- The Grey Plague

- What’s Stannis up to.

 

[Dokivi]

For me, most anticipated parts of TWOW, in this order are:

 

- Sansa (and by extension, Littlefinger) - can't wait to see how GRRM fixes the absolute abomination that was her story past season 4 in the show. Plus, her chapters in Vale are going to be, most likely, something completely new and not that easy to predict - exciting!

- Dany - will we see any further hints of the MadQueen storyline? Is GRRM truly taking this route as well?

- Martells - again, given how badly they were written in the show, I'm hoping to see the real Martells story, as likely it's gonna be something new and much better

- Tyrells/Cersei conflict. This is one of the few truly well done, likely the best storyline of the show past season 4. Is it going to be the same in the books? More/less satisfying?

- Tyrion POVs - can't wait to see him not being an idiot/comic relief again. Is he going to be the "devil on Dany's shoulder"?

- Arya (somewhat) - i'm not into her character, but on a purely intellectual level, I wonder how GRRM will handle the many issues that come into play with her presence in the story (tl;dr - she's OP).

- Theon. For no particular reason.

[Tyrion1991]

Yeah I think Tyrion couldn’t be further away from his show counterpart.

[LynnS]

49 minutes ago, Tyrion1991 said:

Yeah I think Tyrion couldn’t be further away from his show counterpart.

No kidding!

- Jaime's encounter with Stoneheart tops my list

- Samwell at the Citadel, the key and the faceless man, the broken horn in Sam's possession, what are Alleras and Marwyn up to

- Victarion's arrival with Dragonbinder

- Dany returns to the Vaes Dothrak and passes under the shadow of the Mother of Mountains (as per Quaithe's instructions)

- Euron's transformation as suggested in the Foresaken Chapter

- Stannis meets Tycho Nestoris of the Iron Bank, Theon is sacrificed?

- Melisandre and Selyse take up residence in the Night Fort, Mel looks for the Black Gate

- Mance and the outcome of the pink letter

- Aegon/Arianne encounter

- Cersei/Margaery trial, the High Sparrow and the Faith Militant

- Jon Snow, the Wall, the Watch, the Wildlings and the arrival of the Others.

- Bran and company - stories about Howland Reed.

- Varys is back and Cersei is back in power

 

 

[Tyrion1991]

@LynnS

Whenever I think of Eurons plan to become a God I just think Destiny 2 and Ghaul. He’s so dead.  

Do you think that’s all nonsense or would George actually go there? Obtaining Godhood (though that likely means something very different in George’s world) isn’t unheard of in high fantasy stories. So he could play around with that trope. I mean there is a bit at the end of Storm where Dany thinks on all the lonely Gods and how she would  hate to be like Rhollor and eternally at war. So it’s probably not that nice as Euron imagines.

 

[BlackDread12]

Jon's resurrection/ warging into Ghost

Arya's apprenticeship

Cersei's trial 

Moqurro (sp?) + Victarion

Ageon leading the battle 

Davos in Skagos

Dany reuniting with Dothraki

 

 

 

 

[LynnS]

2 hours ago, Tyrion1991 said:

@LynnS

Whenever I think of Eurons plan to become a God I just think Destiny 2 and Ghaul. He’s so dead.  

Do you think that’s all nonsense or would George actually go there? Obtaining Godhood (though that likely means something very different in George’s world) isn’t unheard of in high fantasy stories. So he could play around with that trope. I mean there is a bit at the end of Storm where Dany thinks on all the lonely Gods and how she would  hate to be like Rhollor and eternally at war. So it’s probably not that nice as Euron imagines.

 

Spoiler

Well, he's planning to sacrifice his brother, salt-wife and unborn child on a sea of blood, no doubt.  The elements are the same for Dany's transformation but not in the same order.  This seems much like Mirri Maaz Duur, Drogo in his bloody bath, Dany's unborn child, followed by MMD's death.  He might end up more a demon; a god in his own mind.  I think of Pyat Pree hung up without his legs, a mockery of Bran and his threat that the little gods can't defeat him.

Whatever happens, it will be horrific.  Yes, I think GRRM is up to that.  But then again, I also think that Qyburn stuck Robert's head on Gregor's body.  So what do I know?