Events you are most looking forward to see in TWOW

[Elegant Woes]

On 11/2/2019 at 3:58 PM, Nagini's Neville said:

Hm, that's harsh  Do you actually think Dany and Jon won't happen at all?

No I don't think it won't happen. In fact I believe that Jon and Dany's dynamic will be uglier in the books, because Jon is a whole lot more cunning and ruthless Dany is more gullible and trusting. GRRM doesn't intend to hold back any punches. We should expect a Dance of Dragons 2.0 to happen with these two. 

[Nagini's Neville]

6 minutes ago, Elegant Woes said:

No I don't think it won't happen. In fact I believe that Jon and Dany's dynamic will be much worse in the books, because Jon is a whole lot more cunning and ruthless Dany is more gullible and trusting. We should expect a Dance of Dragons 2.0 to happen with these two. 

So you basically expect it be way more toxic and disastrous and in the end for Jon and Sansa to hit it of and fall in love and get married?

[Elegant Woes]

11 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

So you basically expect it be way more toxic and disastrous and in the end for Jon and Sansa to hit it of and fall in love and get married?

Yes I do believe that. I know that a Jon and Sansa love story seems far-fetched to you, but there's quite some evidence to support that they fit quite well with each other.

[honeyed chicken]

1 minute ago, Elegant Woes said:

Yes I do believe that. I know that a Jon and Sansa love story seems far-fetched to you, but there's quite some evidence to support that they fit quite well with each other.

I can almost see Jon-Sansa if his heritage becomes common knowledge. To this point in the books there's very little to suggest that either one has any interest in the other.

[Elegant Woes]

24 minutes ago, honeyed chicken said:

I can almost see Jon-Sansa if his heritage becomes common knowledge. To this point in the books there's very little to suggest that either one has any interest in the other.

We haven't seen any interaction between them on paper, that is true, but who their first love is reveals a lot about them. Waymar Royce, who Sansa falls wildly in love with, looks exactly like Jon. Should they meet again Sansa could be attracted towards him. Ygritte was Jon's first love and while he never says it out loud what attracted him to her was traits she shares with Sansa: her singing voice, tearing up at songs and being at awe at the wonders of the world. Plus before he dies Jon subconsciously associates Sansa with Ygritte. Wild speculation on my part, but I think it's possible Jon has a crush on Sansa. I mean it would explain his irrational jealously towards Joffrey in his very first chapter. 

[BalerionTheCat]

3 hours ago, Elegant Woes said:

I don't think the dragons will survive. GRRM likens them to be weapons of mass destruction and he has also said that he is anti-war. So the dragons will definitely die. Not just them mind you. I think all magic will come to an end in Westeros. The Giants, Children of the Forest, and, even as it pains me to say it, the direwolfs will eventually die. GRRM wants to emulate Tolkien with his bittersweet ending. 

I also think the dragons will die. This weapon dispenses the owner to seek compromise and allies and mutual interest rather than the "I choose violence". Likewise, I don't think the Others will be defeated in a big battle. Agree, war is not GRRM solution to problems.

But all magic, I don't know. I hope not. If Bran survives as a greenseer, the faith in the Old Gods is restored. Maybe the world will heal. I believe the world will need magical guardians, symbols of the gods, maybe the threat of the Others, to not return in its current barbarity.

[Nagini's Neville]

7 minutes ago, Elegant Woes said:

Yes I do believe that. I know that a Jon and Sansa love story seems far-fetched to you, but there's quite some evidence to support that they fit quite well with each other.

I'm actually not at all against Sansa-Jon. In our other discussion it might have come across that way... I can see were you guys are coming from. You think they were always so distant from one another, that they didn't regard each other as siblings anyways. I'm just not really sure, that's true... But we don't have to much info about how they interacted as children.

But now at the moment, I just feel like Jon really doesn't care about Sansa at all. He does not once ask himself how she is doing, being married to Tyrion (just like Robb didn't ). But not just that.. he doesn't even ask himself, what has become of her after Tyrion murdered his own father. He thinks only about Tyrion himself.

"If the tales coming up the kingsroad could be believed, the King’s Hand had been murdered by his dwarf son whilst sitting on a privy. Jon had known Tyrion Lannister, briefly. He took my hand and named me friend. It was hard to believe the little man had it in him to murder his own sire, but the fact of Lord Tywin’s demise seemed to be beyond doubt."

A Dance With Dragons, Jon 3

With Arya it's a completely different issue. When she is in trouble, it's really horrible for him and he can't let go of the thought of her, while he doesn't even consider Sansa.

I really wonder, why Sansa is always being accused of not thinking of her family, while no one is every thinking about her.

[Nagini's Neville]

44 minutes ago, Elegant Woes said:

We haven't seen any interaction between them on paper, that is true, but who their first love is reveals a lot about them. Waymar Royce, who Sansa falls wildly in love with, looks exactly like Jon. Should they meet again Sansa could be attracted towards him. Ygritte was Jon's first love and while he never says it out loud what attracted him to her was traits she shares with Sansa: her singing voice, tearing up at songs and being at awe at the wonders of the world. Plus before he dies Jon subconsciously associates Sansa with Ygritte. Wild speculation on my part, but I think it's possible Jon has a crush on Sansa. I mean it would explain his irrational jealously towards Joffrey in his very first chapter. 

When was he jealous of Joffrey?  When does Jon associate Sansa with Ygritte? As far as I remember Ygritte reminded him of Arya. I think despite their red hair and love for songs (which a lot of ppl share in the 7 kingdoms and also Sansa's love for songs was way more intense) they really don't have anything in common. Ygritte is a warrior and feisty, while Sansa is really the opposite.

Don't you think Jon would at least think about her well-being once, if he had a crush on her? For some time he was under the impression, she was the only one of his family still alive and he still didn't think about her.

[Elegant Woes]

@Nagini's Neville My apologies, I didn't mean to accuse you of being against Jon/Sansa as a pairing. All I am saying is that I understand if you don't see it happening because I also thought the same like that.

In all honesty I don't know why Jon refuses to think of Sansa in these situations. He should be thinking of her, but for some reason he doesn't. It reeks of authorial intent in my opinion. It seems like GRRM is preventing us from figuring out something we should only learn once Jon and Sansa reunite. This why I am wondering if Jon has a crush on Sansa.

 

[Nagini's Neville]

4 minutes ago, Elegant Woes said:

@Nagini's Neville My apologies, I didn't mean to accuse you of being against Jon/Sansa as a pairing. All I am saying is that I understand if you don't see it happening because I also thought the same like that.

In all honesty I don't know why Jon refuses to think of Sansa in these situations. He should be thinking of her, but for some reason he doesn't. It reeks of authorial intent in my opinion. It seems like GRRM is preventing us from figuring out something we should only learn once Jon and Sansa reunite. This why I am wondering if Jon has a crush on Sansa.

 

I didn't feel accused, just wanted to clarify   I guess, I can see your logic... even though I don't really agree.  But as i said, I don't mind Jon and Sansa! - just want her to be happy and save (unless she somehow develops into a monster lol)

[BalerionTheCat]

2 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

So you basically expect it be way more toxic and disastrous and in the end for Jon and Sansa to hit it of and fall in love and get married?

I don't think Jon and Daenerys will ever happen. It is written to be expected, like Tyrion meeting Daenerys in ADwD. But will it really happen? And will it work? Jon and Daenerys represent different, opposite worlds. Hers, one of total dominance by one absolute leader. Him, some of the Free Folks ways. With Stark-like protection.

Quote

When there was a Stark in Winterfell, a maiden girl could walk the kingdsroad in her nameday gown and still go unmolested, and travelers could find fire, bread and salt a many an inn and holdfast

 

2 hours ago, Elegant Woes said:

Yes I do believe that. I know that a Jon and Sansa love story seems far-fetched to you, but there's quite some evidence to support that they fit quite well with each other.

They would fit well. But there is Val.

[Nagini's Neville]

deleted because of spoilers

[Elegant Woes]

@BalerionTheCat I don't know about Val, there's something off about her characterization. I have a feeling she might be involved in the burning of Shireen in the upcoming book. Besides I hardly doubt that Jon's love interest will be a minor character like Val. She needs to be a major character who is as equally important as him. Only Dany and Sansa fit in this criteria. In fact I have a feeling we might get a love triangle between these three. I mean there must be a reason why Sansa and Dany are the only ones who sense Jon's death. 

[BalerionTheCat]

2 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

I always thought so too. I thought it would be too cliche....

I thought this sub-forum should be free of show spoilers.

Spoiler

removed spoiler

But with all the enemies waiting Daenerys in the south, I don't know how she will come North. Or how Jon will involve himself in this viper's nest. Maybe the Others will come South, seeking her dragons. Or the Red Priests will want her fighting the Others.

[Nagini's Neville]

1 minute ago, BalerionTheCat said:

I thought this sub-forum should be free of show spoilers.

Sorry you're right. I'll delete it. Just sometimes hard to justify your thoughts without it. But you're absolutely right!! I'll delete it at once.

[BalerionTheCat]

59 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Just sometimes hard to justify your thoughts

No problem The line seems sometimes fuzzy to me too.

[BalerionTheCat]

2 hours ago, Elegant Woes said:

I don't know about Val, there's something off about her characterization. I have a feeling she might be involved in the burning of Shireen in the upcoming book. Besides I hardly doubt that Jon's love interest will be a minor character like Val

Val doesn't' want Shireen dead by cruelty. She seems absolutely sure and wants to protect everyone else.

Quote

The grey death is what we call it.
It is not always mortal in children.
North of the Wall it is. Hemlock is a sure cure, but a pillow or a blade will work as well. If I had given birth to that poor child, I would have given her the gift of mercy long ago.
This was a Val that Jon had never seen before. Princess Shireen is the queen’s only child.
I pity both of them. The child is not clean.
If Stannis wins his war, Shireen will stand as heir to the Iron Throne.
Then I pity your Seven Kingdoms.
The maesters say greyscale is not
The maesters may believe what they wish. Ask a woods witch if you would know the truth. The grey death sleeps, only to wake again. The child is not clean!
She seems a sweet girl. You cannot know
I can. You know nothing, Jon Snow. Val seized his arm. I want the monster out of there. Him and his wet nurses. You cannot leave them in that same tower as the dead girl.

In absolute she is as major a character as Tormund. I believe she has not much screen time because GRRM is hiding her place in the end game. I believe she is one of the keys to the Old Gods and the Others. She knows much about them apparently. IMO, she is the White Melissandre, an Old God priestess.

[Eden-Mackenzie]

Rather than events, there are two characters I am the most interested in reading more about: Barbrey Dustin and Hoster Blackwood. Barbrey has been discussed a lot, there is no question she is going to play a major role in TWOW, but Hos the Hostage seems to stay below radar. We have a ton of information about him given his apparent position in the story, and almost as soon as we meet him, his link to the story disappears into the woods with Brienne. To me, it seems like he is being setup to be part of something big. 

[honeyed chicken]

If a genie gave you the power to make George Martin write TWOW as you wanted it, what would you ask for?

Me, I'd ask him to write it as though HBO and GOT had never existed.

[Elegant Woes]

10 hours ago, honeyed chicken said:

If genie gave you the power to make George Martin write TWOW as you wanted it, what would you ask for?

Me, I'd ask him to writ e it as though HBO and GOT had never existed.

I would ask for a time machine, grab my AFFC & ADWD edition and go back to the year 2000 and give them to George. And of course tell him to never ever work with Benioff and Weiss.