Jump to content
mormont

UK Politics: A Third Meaningful Thread

Recommended Posts

I'd favour a general election - but it looks as if it would produce a Parliament just as divided as it is now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, SeanF said:

I'd favour a general election - but it looks as if it would produce a Parliament just as divided as it is now.

Which is why I'd prefer a referendum - that way people are voting for what they actually believe rather than tactically, and there's no clouding the issue with people who don't like a given party's Brexit stance but vote for them anyway because they like the rest of the manifesto.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I came here because 'Breaking News' just popped up on my Facebook page - "Theresa May admits country is 'in crisis' with ten days to avert no-deal Brexit", the Independent.

Reality sucks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, mormont said:

I am bound to point out that I can only allow this thread if it is substantially different to the prior threads.

Carry on. 

Everyone could swap attitudes and everyone that was cynical/pessimistic about Brexit could be optimistic now and vice versa for those that were already optimistic? Do we even have of the second group at this point?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is incredible that 10 days out, nobody has a clue as to what the outcome will be.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And May is ruling out a long extension too, and this tone seems pretty far from accepting a second referendum or anything else. She's going to ask for 2 months and just try...exactly the same thing she's already done. Brinksmanship with no meaningful change to the deal, maybe on the 3rd or 4th try enough MPs will get scared?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

She's not even interested in trying to get the EU to agree her extension though; just in taking the possible!

So well arrive at Friday this week, with less than a week to Brexit, no time for a second referendum due to sheer stubborn incompetence. Leaving us the option of crash out or revoke.

Edited by Which Tyler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, the problem here is Parliament's 'failure to take a decision'. Not May's refusal to accept their decision, her insistence on asking them the same question over and over again, or her record of complete disinterest in what anyone except hardcore Brexiteers or the DUP have to say, or her constant delays, or her attempts to get the EU to agree to impossible demands, or the unnecessary election she called, or the fact that she can't even command the confidence of her own Cabinet ministers, or her lack of political skill, strength, judgement or competence. It's all Parliament's fault. :rolleyes:

I did apparently overestimate May though. She's not even going to ask the EU for changes. She's just going to find a backdoor way to come back and ask Parliament for a third vote on the same deal. Still, on the substance, I think I was right: May has no other ideas, and no interest in any other ideas, other than 'keep pushing my deal even after it's dead and buried'. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Yup

To be fair to May - she never wanted parliament to have a say in the first place, she wanted to just use executive privelege - so she's just sticking to her line there - some would call that stubborn incompetence, others would call it strong and stable leadership.

Edited by Which Tyler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

May seems to have stuck to her tactic the whole way through, which seems to be to just delay and delay and hope that fear will force everyone to sign onto her deal. I suspected she might relent after the Bercow ruling, but no, she's as stubborn as I assumed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not only have we the worst PM in history
We have the worst opposition
What did we do to deserve these 2?

Jeremy Corbyn was asked yesterday how long any extension should be and he replied: "I think an extension to the end of June gives time at least for a discussion on this."

What a stupid, stupid, stupid man. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

It's official - extension until June 30th requested (and likely to be rejected)

She wants it in order to bring her deal (yeah, yeah, working agreement) to parliament again (which may well be refused a vote on, and is unlikely to pass even if it is)

 

Is she actually capable of acutally listening?

 

Doesn't help that she's a Brixiteer in all but name - I think she'd be genuinely happy with No Deal crash, so long as she can (try to) blame someone else.

Edited by Which Tyler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

The only way this can end now is revocation. No Deal is simply not going to happen. I find it amusing that people are even talking about the possibility after last week's vote.

And May is insisting she's going to hold a third meaningful vote. On what, exactly? The only way she gets her crappy deal before the Commons again is if she wins a GE.

Edited by Spockydog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

Doesn't help that she's a Brixiteer in all but name - I think she'd be genuinely happy with No Deal crash, so long as she can (try to) blame someone else.

I'm not sure she is.  She campaigned and voted for Remain.  But she's pragmatic - as all leaders should be - and it's her job to carry out the referendum result.  

I'm watching PMQs.  What a shambles.  Are other parliaments this petty, childish and disrespectful?  They're just a bunch of rowdy hooligans!  This isn't a Brexit issue - this is how the House of Commons has always been.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

The only way this can end now is revocation. No Deal is simply not going to happen. I find it amusing that people are even talking about the possibility after last week's vote.

I admire your confidence, but don’t share it unfortunately. Leaving without a deal (despite the vote) would still be viewed as more politically viable than revocation. Revocation would probably make May’s position intenable, which would mean leadership elections and general elections, which would mean basically a complete repeat of 2016; two parties in meltdown, someone emerging victorious with pretty much the same dilemma on their hands; when to trigger A50, how to get a deal agreed with the EU, how to get it through parliament. I’m a Remainer, but at a certain point maybe it just becomes better to rip the plaster off than have another 3 years of this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

 

22 minutes ago, Mosi Mynn said:

 

I'm watching PMQs.  What a shambles.  Are other parliaments this petty, childish and disrespectful?  They're just a bunch of rowdy hooligans!  This isn't a Brexit issue - this is how the House of Commons has always been.

I've always been appalled by this. At least in some parliaments they have full on fist fights. 

 

3 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

 I’m a Remainer, but at a certain point maybe it just becomes better to rip the plaster off than have another 3 years of this.

That's how I feel in my gut, but in my head I know it's not true. It would not be better at all.

Though a tiny part of me hopes the economy tanks and all the stupid people lose their jobs. 

Edited by BigFatCoward

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I heard there are quite a few DUP and ERGers who are coming around to May's deal, now that they have a bit more time to look over the advice on the backstop (also add in bribery and promises) Part of the issue was the rushed approach to forcing them into signing, again which seems to be Mays tactic with everything. 

However, I doubt there would be enough to get it over the line, or even close. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×