Jump to content

UK Politics: A Third Meaningful Thread


mormont

Recommended Posts

6 minutes ago, Ser Hedge said:

The MPs that voted against the deal in MV2 or MV1 are for the most part either hard Brexiteers or Remainers. For them to change their vote either no-deal or the possibility of a long extension leading to a very soft Brexit has to be taken off the table. I think Tusk tried to do that by taking a long extension off the table, but I'm afraid the Remainers are not really moving yet, since they think it's a bluff and you get a long extension after all. It might have been better if no-deal had been taken off the table, but the EU (eh France) is just starting to get as worked up as we have been here since December. Sigh.

Tusk is saying piss or get off the pot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Jeez, I wonder if the no-deal referendum target will be reached before you all go to bed?

11.30 pm now, so too late. Stands a good chance of reaching it within 24 hours of posting though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From The Independent

Nearly two-thirds of people would vote to remain in the EU rather than for Theresa May’s deal if a referendum offering those options were called, a snap poll by YouGov has found.

Sixty-one per cent of the population would vote to remain while 39 per cent would opt for the existing deal, 

However, if people were asked in a public vote whether they would prefer to remain in the EU or leave with no deal in place, Remain would still win, though by the smaller margin of 57-43 per cent

 

While I'm in the 61%/57%, I'm actually quite scared of the 43%, so I think we should go with the 39%. I wonder what % agrees with that?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, Ser Hedge said:

From The Independent

Nearly two-thirds of people would vote to remain in the EU rather than for Theresa May’s deal if a referendum offering those options were called, a snap poll by YouGov has found.

Sixty-one per cent of the population would vote to remain while 39 per cent would opt for the existing deal, 

However, if people were asked in a public vote whether they would prefer to remain in the EU or leave with no deal in place, Remain would still win, though by the smaller margin of 57-43 per cent

 

While I'm in the 61%/57%, I'm actually quite scared of the 43%, so I think we should go with the 39%. I wonder what % agrees with that?

 

 

So some hard Brexiteers would rather revoke A50 and remain than go with the May deal. In some respects that makes sense. Once you've done the Brexit deal, it'd be very hard to make further changes of the sort that Brexiteers would want to see. Whereas if you remain, Brexiteers can still keep agitating to leave and demand that revoking A50 does not nullify the original referrendum, it just prevents exiting with a bad deal and a new better deal can start to be negotiated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope nobody here is putting any serious faith in online petitions having any real effect. 

We’ve already had plenty of people signing these things only for nothing to happen. We haven’t blocked Trump from entering the country and we haven’t instituted our own Muslim ban either. 

But im sure signing these things makes people feel better about something 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

So some hard Brexiteers would rather revoke A50 and remain than go with the May deal. In some respects that makes sense. Once you've done the Brexit deal, it'd be very hard to make further changes of the sort that Brexiteers would want to see. Whereas if you remain, Brexiteers can still keep agitating to leave and demand that revoking A50 does not nullify the original referrendum, it just prevents exiting with a bad deal and a new better deal can start to be negotiated.

I guess that's the case, and they want pure free trade agreement with whomever we want Nirvana, but is that worth the pain of a no deal that not all the 52% that voted leave in the referendum voted for and violating the Good Friday agreement, when on the other hand, you can accept this withdrawal agreement, slide into the backstop of the customs union, until the technology is ready to let you out of the backstop, while respecting the Good Friday agreement? 

(Sorry @The Anti-Targ it's a rhetorical question obviously :-), actually probably more a rant)

And it's not like there is a queue out there waiting to sign free trade deals. Some smaller commodity exporters can probably be arm-twisted, but larger Emerging Markets will want their own pound of flesh and it all takes years.

If you are a hard Brexiteer who has the decency to not inflict massive pain on people who don't understand what decisions are being taken here really and have respect for the Good Friday Agreement, there is little reason to not take this deal and work over the next get years to find a way of exiting the backstop  and reaching your free trade 'Nirvana'.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Pebble said:

Its 7am here and now up to 415k   and the numbers are rolling.   looks like people are waking up to sign.

wonder how big it will get by the end of the day.    Its got to slow down at some point right?

Just so you know there was a petition that gathered 4 million votes in 2016 about a second referendum. We haven’t had a second referendum.

ironically that one was by a leave supporter 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I hope nobody here is putting any serious faith in online petitions having any real effect. 

We’ve already had plenty of people signing these things only for nothing to happen. We haven’t blocked Trump from entering the country and we haven’t instituted our own Muslim ban either. 

But im sure signing these things makes people feel better about something 

Of course not. Like Saturday's march, it's a way to make our opinions known to politicians.

The only way to do so in large numbers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Heartofice said:

Just so you know there was a petition that gathered 4 million votes in 2016 about a second referendum. We haven’t had a second referendum.

Not on a petition aitenthat forcesntue government to respond there wasn't. Not to mention that that was before any working agreement had been worked out, May brinkmanship had played out, and the leave lies had been exposed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Which Tyler said:

Not on a petition aitenthat forcesntue government to respond there wasn't. Not to mention that that was before any working agreement had been worked out, May brinkmanship had played out, and the leave lies had been exposed.

My point is these petitions rarely have any effect and there are generally hundreds of these things flying around on social media at any one time. I don’t think they are taken very seriously as it’s pretty easy to just click a button from your bedroom

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Just so you know there was a petition that gathered 4 million votes in 2016 about a second referendum. We haven’t had a second referendum.

ironically that one was by a leave supporter 

you sound worried, this may have an effect.

 

No one is expecting anything to happen than maybe about 8 MP's debate this in a rather empty room.

But it is a way of telling May,  NO you are NOT on OUR side.   and a Lot of US really do want to Stay or a 2nd Ref.     Not everyone voted to Leave.

 

 

btw  I think the speed of this one if fascinating.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Pebble said:

you sound worried, this may have an effect.

 

No one is expecting anything to happen than maybe about 8 MP's debate this in a rather empty room.

But it is a way of telling May,  NO you are NOT on OUR side.   and a Lot of US really do want to Stay or a 2nd Ref.     Not everyone voted to Leave.

 

 

btw  I think the speed of this one if fascinating.

Lol not scared, why would I be? You just seem to be setting yourself up for disappointment 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Less than 24 hours, and it's the most signed petition since the government started running them.

It's got to send a message at least. Even though we all know the message won't be listened to.

 

Currently about to smash through 600,000, increasing at about 400 per 5 second refresh.
I think I've got this timeline correct (and it's been up for less than 24 hours, just didn't take off until last night when May threw her little temper tantrum - that she'd thrown 6 hours previously in PMQs):

10.25am 20/02/19 petition opened.
8.00 pm 20/03/19 80,000 signatures.
8.35 pm 20/03/19 May makes her speech blaming everyone who isn't her, whilst claiming to be on the side of people she refuses to listen to.
6.00 am 21/03/19 passes 370,000 signatures the "Leave without a deal" petition has after 5 months.
8.40 am 21/03/19 passes 583,000 signatures to become www.petition.parliament.uk 's most signed petition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...