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UK Politics: A Third Meaningful Thread


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8 hours ago, Heartofice said:

https://www.livefrombrexit.com/petitions/241584?fbclid=IwAR38cNTaftU-QYJX8LvThT1T8RFZDGvnTNyClchCtIyGzhbvD-VVaiAfe0Y

Petition signatures broken down by constituency. Unsurprisingly its the Remain areas doing the most voting. 

Is it me, or is the bottom 200 on the list (~5000 or fewer petitioners) mostly labour seats? Labour is perhaps right to be a bit scared about going too hard on remaining. The >10,000 seats also seem to be mostly labour. So Labour seats dominate the most Brexity places and the most remainy places, and the conservative seats dominate the middle.

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Yeah, the problem is, I don't think this guilt tripping by momentum or the cult of Je Guevara (if you don't vote for us, you are responsible for the next Tory goverment) is gonna fly with their remain voters. I mean

Just check the comments under this tweet. I know I usually say Twitter is for Twats, and I mean it. But it really takes a special kind of tone deaf/stupid (or Corbyn) for something like that.

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So, as an uninformed American, what is the difference between Labour and the Liberal Democrats?  Is it realistic that a significant portion of Labour voters might move that way? 

Are liberal voters in England as disgusted with Corbyn as I am?  Because this has got to be the most ineffectual "opposition" I've ever seen.  And coming from an (American) Democrat, that's really saying something. 

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15 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

So, as an uninformed American, what is the difference between Labour and the Liberal Democrats?  Is it realistic that a significant portion of Labour voters might move that way?

The Lib Dems have traditionally been the most enthusiastically pro-European of the major parties. One problem for them might still be that there's the hangover of their coalition with the Tories, a lot of pro-European Labour voters who might otherwise be tempted to switch might still have a grudge about that.

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11 minutes ago, williamjm said:

The Lib Dems have traditionally been the most enthusiastically pro-European of the major parties. One problem for them might still be that there's the hangover of their coalition with the Tories, a lot of pro-European Labour voters who might otherwise be tempted to switch might still have a grudge about that.

What is happening with the Lib Dems?  Have they got a new leader yet?

They should seize this opportunity.  We would forgive them the whole coalition faux pas if they acted as proper politicians - thus making them stand out from the crowd.

They could use the coalition as a platform for legitimacy and trust in a weird way, or at least as a way to be a true opposition voice.  Cameron promised a referendum because he thought he would be in power with the Lib Dems after 2015, and that they would never allow a referendum to take place.  When the Tories won the majority he had to hold a referendum.  The Lib Dems could point out that they were the only ones who would not have got us into this mess!  (Even better if they know of a way to get us out of it.)

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4 minutes ago, Philokles said:

If there is a majority for any one path, then it will be hard to ignore. But everything will almost certainly fail.

She won't let that stop her. It'll need a good 60% for her to feel the need to honour it

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Beckett amendment fails... By 3

 

That's if the UK is seven days away from leaving without a deal, the government must move a motion within two sitting days (or recall Parliament) to vote on whether to go ahead with no-deal or request an extension "to give time for Parliament to determine a different approach".

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26 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

Ah ok... I'm utterly confused ...

If it helps, the previous votes were for amendments to the government's motion (though I'm not entirely sure what that motion was - I think it was indicative votes on options Theresa controls).

Which was passed, despite the government whipping against it.

 

 

Yup, May proposed a motion, told everyone to vote against it, then lost, by winning.

This is our normal now, and happened a couple of times last week.

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Under the legislation passed last year setting up the framework for Brexit, the PM has to give a progess report to Parliament periodically alongside a rather bland motion that MPs can amend to express their viewpoints. The original motion was basically ‘the House has considered the Prime Minister’s update’ which was amended to be ‘the House has considered the Prime Minister’s update and has decided to hold a series of indicative votes’. So May whipping against the whole motion isn’t that shocking as it contains no real content other than the amendment she doesn’t want.

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8 minutes ago, Philokles said:

Under the legislation passed last year setting up the framework for Brexit, the PM has to give a progess report to Parliament periodically alongside a rather bland motion that MPs can amend to express their viewpoints. The original motion was basically ‘the House has considered the Prime Minister’s update’ which was amended to be ‘the House has considered the Prime Minister’s update and has decided to hold a series of indicative votes’. So May whipping against the whole motion isn’t that shocking as it contains no real content other than the amendment she doesn’t want.

Thank you - no wonder I was confused.

 

The May controlled indicative votes just have been a sop she was offering to stop Tories voting for Letwin

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