Video Games: Devils Die Twice

[Rhom]

Again... I don’t understand any of this.

Why is it a big deal that you have to use one launcher vs the other?  How is it appreciably different from the days where I had individual icons for each game on my desktop?

And why are we confused by the concept of exclusivity?  It has been the reality since the inception of console video games.  Certainly first party games were exclusive to Sega/Nintendo... but you had the second party games from places like Rare and even third party exclusives.

So how is any of this new and problematic?

[Jon AS]

9 hours ago, Rhom said:

So how is any of this new and problematic?

It's neither, as others have pointed out.

However, many vocal gamers are entitled, whiny, little shitheads. See also their reactions to, well, basically anything.

 

(This post may have been influenced by my having spent too much time reading video game forums of late)

[Fez]

I had an extremely positive experience with Steam Customer Support yesterday. It's the first time I talked directly with the people there, instead of just interact with their automated systems, and I wonder if they've always been this accommodating or if this is in response to market pressure from Epic.

I've recently gotten started sometimes stupidly breaking my rule of never buying a game in early access. Usually it's not a problem, until yesterday. An early access game I bought back in January, Breach, was shutting down, as was the studio behind it, with its development road map far from complete. I'd played six hours of the game, enough to see that there were some neat ideas but wanted to wait to get more into it until there was more content. Which meant I couldn't apply for an automated refund after hearing that the game and studio was being shut down.

However, I felt that I was entitled to a refund because the studio was not fulfilling the terms of my purchase; i.e. not completing its development road map. So I contact Steam with the "I Have A Question About This Product" Support Ticket, which is the only kind that is guaranteed to be seen by a person, since there's no tags or drop-down menus at all; just a single free-text box that you can write in. I explained my thoughts and request for a refund and the customer support team immediately agreed with me and have given me a refund for my purchase. It went to my Steam Wallet instead of my credit card, but I'm a regular enough purchaser that I don't mind that.

I'm not positive if it's a true refund, in that Steam is clawing back the money from the studio, or if the money is coming from some sort of Valve customer satisfaction account; but, either way, I'm satisfied. Although, I'd have preferred if the studio and game just kept going, I thought it had promise.

 

[briantw]

13 hours ago, Rhom said:

Again... I don’t understand any of this.

Why is it a big deal that you have to use one launcher vs the other?  

It's not a big deal.  It's just a minor annoyance / inconvenience. 

[Toth]

On 4/2/2019 at 10:28 AM, Heartofice said:

I can say that Brandenburg is definitely one of the more challenging and enjoyable factions I've played in EU4. The first few years can be quite challenging, I've had to play and replay it a few times to make sure I never got sucked into the wrong wars, that seems to be the best way to avoid total disaster. I'm enjoying reading your posts as I've never bothered to get further than about a century in.

Agreed. So far it had been really fun, even though I had increasingly felt like I've started to save-scum in order to not screw further up after my blissful ignorance about the first steps need to become Prussia right away and prevent the Commonwealth from totally dominating the east. But it is fun! And I hope I can spare some minutes in the far future to continue my game.

[Werthead]

 

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Why is it a big deal that you have to use one launcher vs the other? 

 

You don't need to use the Epic Launcher and can in fact transfer games to the Steam launcher (via the "Add non-Steam product" command) easily enough. As far as I can tell, about 99% of the people moaning about this issue are either unaware you can do this or are ignoring it as inconvenient to their argument.

 

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And why are we confused by the concept of exclusivity?  It has been the reality since the inception of console video games.  Certainly first party games were exclusive to Sega/Nintendo... but you had the second party games from places like Rare and even third party exclusives.

 So how is any of this new and problematic?

 

That's format exclusivity, which is nothing new. There's plenty of games that only come out on PC and not on console as well, or will only work (well) on more powerful modern PCs and won't work on, say, five-year-old machines which haven't been upgraded. Consoles are also closed platforms, so that's fine. The PC isn't. The idea that you have to go to one place and one place only to buy a game is bizarre. Even with games where you have to have UPlay or Steam installed, you can at least buy the games elsewhere before installing the software. This idea that if you want to buy Game X you have to buy it from Store X is not something we've seen previously in the PC space, especially where it relates to both games unconnected to Epice and games that are the latest in series previously available in other storefronts (Borderlands being the latest example of that).

There's also the fact crowdfunded games are being snapped up, in some cases games which explicitly 100% promised they would be available on Steam and GoG in the crowdfunding campaign. Phoenix Point's reputation has been single-handedly destroyed by them going Epic exclusive when they raised hundreds of thousands of dollars from people with the explicit promise that the game would be on GoG and Steam at launch. Their message of "Well, Epic have given us enough money to not care about that, so fuck you, all get refunds if you want," was possibly the worst PR blunder I've ever seen.

I think the real issue for a lot of people is that, as far as they are concerned, Steam is the default gaming PC online store and anything that isn't on Steam is taking the piss. Which is ironic given the vitriol and anger directed at Valve for creating Steam in the first place in 2003. The other side of the coin is that Valve have gotten very lazy recently and need a massive kick up the backside, and this may be it.

I have an Epic account (I've used it to pick up Subnautica and this weekend's The Witness as part of their free offers) and will definitely get Pheonix Point and The Outer Worlds on release because they look like the most promising games of the year, but I can see why other people are pissed off.

 

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I had an extremely positive experience with Steam Customer Support yesterday. It's the first time I talked directly with the people there, instead of just interact with their automated systems, and I wonder if they've always been this accommodating or if this is in response to market pressure from Epic.

Yes, Valve do seem to be upping their game. Customer service is improving and they have gone out on a limb to lock down some good new deals. Their new deals with Bethesda and Microsoft (removing the threat of Bethesda using their own launcher exclusively for their next game people give a genuine shit about, or going Epic exclusive, and getting all of the Halo games on PC via Steam) are also promising. They're starting to address the review bombing problem (Gearbox's other games on Steam, especially Borderlands 2, all got review-bombed this week after Borderlands 3 went exclusive and Valve have started nuking those reviews). I suspect they'll be dropping the licence fee for developers next. Hopefully they won't start going down the path of exclusivity deals.

[Red Tiger]

Having given Sekiro some time to marinate in my mind, I must say that overall I am quite dissappointed in it.

It has epic fights and solid combat, but the input delay issues that have plagued From Soft games since forever were a real problem for some fights.

The world didn't really feel that interesting and oftentimes I wasn't motivated to go seek things out.

I really missed the option to systematically build my character up statistically, even though the skill trees are effective.

Overall a 7.5

Not sure if im getting Mortal Kombat 11.

[Relic]

23 hours ago, Jon AS said:

It's neither, as others have pointed out.

However, many vocal gamers are entitled, whiny, little shitheads. See also their reactions to, well, basically anything.

 

(This post may have been influenced by my having spent too much time reading video game forums of late)

Not to mention many of these whiny little shits are under the age of 25, socially awkward, and easily manipulated with memes. They mimic each other constantly and live in a Twitch watching hand lotion buying bubble of docile complaining. Gamers are the worst... 

[Rhom]

Is any of this a worse business practice than downloadable preorder bonuses specific to GameStop/Best Buy/etc?

[Werthead]

13 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Is any of this a worse business practice than downloadable preorder bonuses specific to GameStop/Best Buy/etc?

As far as can be told, GameStop/Best Buy have never scanned your computer system and send the results to a company involved with the Chinese government, so arguably yes.

[Kalbear]

On 4/6/2019 at 2:31 PM, Werthead said:

 This idea that if you want to buy Game X you have to buy it from Store X is not something we've seen previously in the PC space, especially where it relates to both games unconnected to Epice and games that are the latest in series previously available in other storefronts (Borderlands being the latest example of that). 

Basically false, as Steam has been the only place to find a whole lot of games, including most indie games. It's true for AAA games, but Steam is the only game in town (or was) for a whole host of publishers and game devs. 

On 4/6/2019 at 2:31 PM, Werthead said:

I have an Epic account (I've used it to pick up Subnautica and this weekend's The Witness as part of their free offers) and will definitely get Pheonix Point and The Outer Worlds on release because they look like the most promising games of the year, but I can see why other people are pissed off. 

I didn't see why they were pissed, and continue to not see how a store that sells things exclusively is somehow bad, but my daughter did bring up a good point - which is that at least so far achievements on Epic store suck ass. This is something they can and should improve on, but she's a massive achievement junkie, and not having them on Steam is a big hassle. 

 

[Werthead]

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

Basically false, as Steam has been the only place to find a whole lot of games, including most indie games. It's true for AAA games, but Steam is the only game in town (or was) for a whole host of publishers and game devs. 

Yeah, I phrased that badly. I think it's fairer to say that those indie developers chose freely to be on Steam because it was pretty much the only game in town, but they certainly weren't bribed to be on there. In fact, a key complaint about Steam is the amount of low-effort, low-maintenance, rip-off shovelware that has been put on the platform over the last few years and Steam has allowed it, seemingly purely to boast about how many thousands of games of they added in the last twelve months.

[KiDisaster]

https://kotaku.com/the-past-and-present-of-dragon-age-4-1833913351

Another great piece by Jason Schreier about the state of DA4. 

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Another former BioWare developer who worked on Joplin called it “some of the best work experiences” they’d ever had. “We were working towards something very cool, a hugely reactive game, smaller in scope than Dragon Age: Inquisition but much larger in player choice, followers, reactivity, and depth,” they said. “I’m sad that game will never get made.”

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A tiny team stuck around to work on a brand new Dragon Age 4, code-named Morrison, that would be built on Anthem’s tools and codebase. It’s the game being made now. Unlike Joplin, this new version of the fourth Dragon Age is planned with a live service component, built for long-term gameplay and revenue.

Just dashing any slight hope I had left that this wouldn't be another train wreck out the damn window. 

[Rhom]

2 hours ago, KiDisaster said:

https://kotaku.com/the-past-and-present-of-dragon-age-4-1833913351

Another great piece by Jason Schreier about the state of DA4. 

Just dashing any slight hope I had left that this wouldn't be another train wreck out the damn window. 

Inquisition killed any desire I had to continue in the Dragon Age world.  Shame really.  At least now, I won't feel bad about not playing the next one.

And I say that as someone who mostly likes Anthem.  The gameplay is fun.  Its just very empty.  Even vanilla Destiny had more than this.

[aceluby]

Children really make it difficult to get any gaming time.  Still making my way through Sekiro and loving every minute of it.  I've actually been really enjoying the few spots of farming runs I've been running through, since I only get an hour or so per play.  I have 2 mini-bosses and one boss that I've made my way to, but I'm having a blast just being a ninja around all of the levels with the demon bell on.  Even been keeping it on for most of the bosses, even though it's making them harder.

Also realized yesterday that my TV wasn't in game mode, which was causing some input delay.  Turned it on and the combat is definitely more precise.

[Jace, Extat]

16 hours ago, Rhom said:

Inquisition killed any desire I had to continue in the Dragon Age world.  Shame really.  At least now, I won't feel bad about not playing the next one.

And I say that as someone who mostly likes Anthem.  The gameplay is fun.  Its just very empty.  Even vanilla Destiny had more than this.

Sometimes I feel like an alien. I distinctly remember enjoying Dragon Age 3, but cannot get back into it even to experience the Trespasser DLC. I washed my hands of BioWare after that insult which was Mass Effect 4, I'll never play Anthem and I don't need to in order to see what EA has done to the studio.

I cannot fathom how some of you are bothered to say "eh, but ME 4 had fun combat". Andromeda was so pathetic from the outset that I actually felt my heart sink in real time. And I went in knowing people had been savaging it!

[Rhom]

1 hour ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Sometimes I feel like an alien. I distinctly remember enjoying Dragon Age 3, but cannot get back into it even to experience the Trespasser DLC. I washed my hands of BioWare after that insult which was Mass Effect 4, I'll never play Anthem and I don't need to in order to see what EA has done to the studio.

I cannot fathom how some of you are bothered to say "eh, but ME 4 had fun combat". Andromeda was so pathetic from the outset that I actually felt my heart sink in real time. And I went in knowing people had been savaging it!

I really DID love the combat in Andromeda though.  I felt the game was too ambitious with its scale though.  Mass Effect was always a hallway shooter with tactical elements to the combat and the game essentially drove you from hallway to hallway in a tight narrative.  By being set in an open world, Andromeda lost that feel and focus.

DA: Inquistion had the same problem with the open world... but the combat was shit.

Anthem is fun in a mindless sort of way.  The story is essentially non-existent though and much of the gaming population seems to have died off already, there's no ingame version of "Ironforge" to see how many people are standing around and such to judge this, but I've gotten to level 30 and still want to just play casually on Normal setting and the game seems to struggle to find three other people to put in my random missions.

[KiDisaster]

I actually really liked Inquisition. 

Andromeda had solid combat but nothing else about it is worth remarking on. 

[Caligula_K3]

Yeah, count me among those who loved Inquisition. It has its flaws, but so does Origins. It was still a great role playing experience, especially if you decide to ignore the fluff and just do companion/zone quests.

Andromeda really wasn't terrible. It was just mediocre. It has some great ideas, the combat is fun, and some of the characters are well developed. But the main plot is very lame, a lot of the writing is bad, and it was a victim of open-world bloat and "check-list" game design. It didn't help that many of even the good quests forced you to go to three different planets and face their long loading screens. I remember playing Breath of the Wild after this and the difference in open world game design was staggering.

That was a pretty depressing article about Dragon Age 4. Because I'm an idiot, I'll hold out hope that Bioware can salvage something good out of this... but damn do I want to play the older version of the game.

[Corvinus85]

1 minute ago, Caligula_K3 said:

Andromeda really wasn't terrible. It was just mediocre. It has some great ideas, the combat is fun, and some of the characters are well developed. But the main plot is very lame, a lot of the writing is bad, and it was a victim of open-world bloat and "check-list" game design. It didn't help that many of even the good quests forced you to go to three different planets and face their long loading screens. I remember playing Breath of the Wild after this and the difference in open world game design was staggering.

This was the most annoying feature for me. I remember how they touted the ship design before the game's launch. You could move though the sections of The Tempest without loading screens, yay, but apparently if you're planet side, and decide to talk to someone on the ship, the ship inexplicably takes off, because you can't talk to people on board unless the ship's in space.