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Video Games: Devils Die Twice


Red Tiger

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Like I said, there are limited subscription services, but nothing that's truly full access to the entire library. Origin Access is EA games and a handful of others. Xbox Game Pass is similar. They're competitively priced, for sure, but they're not the same thing I'm talking about.

It's definitely true that DLC is defraying some of that cost, but while I can't stand DLC and don't buy very much of it — I think it's usually a lousy value proposition — it's distinct from a game at release. Additional resources are required to create that DLC.

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3 minutes ago, Inigima said:

Like I said, there are limited subscription services, but nothing that's truly full access to the entire library. Origin Access is EA games and a handful of others. Xbox Game Pass is similar. They're competitively priced, for sure, but they're not the same thing I'm talking about.

It's definitely true that DLC is defraying some of that cost, but while I can't stand DLC and don't buy very much of it — I think it's usually a lousy value proposition — it's distinct from a game at release. Additional resources are required to create that DLC.

Content DLC isn't the money driver anymore;  a lot of times, like in primarily multiplayer games, it's actually free now, because the developers don't want to fragment their player bases. Cosmetics and lootboxes, those are the big money drivers for AAA games now. And, as Ubisoft and others have shown, they can show up pretty easily in single-player AAA games too (not that there's very many of those left anymore).

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Depends on the genre and the details. Fighting games, for example, still routinely release roster updates as paid DLC. It doesn't fragment the base per se since you can still match against DLC owners if you don't have it, but I would certainly describe it as content, and I don't think you can work with the characters in training mode to learn them.

Cosmetics are huge for sure, though. 

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25 minutes ago, Inigima said:

It's definitely true that DLC is defraying some of that cost, but while I can't stand DLC and don't buy very much of it — I think it's usually a lousy value proposition — it's distinct from a game at release. Additional resources are required to create that DLC.

But sometimes the base game is deliberately watered down for that DLC, so you aren't getting the full value out of the base game in the first place. Additionally, the DLC do not come cheap and they can also add up to multiple times the cost of the base game. What is a lousy value proposition from your perspective is an excellent value proposition in theirs.

43 minutes ago, Fez said:

Content DLC isn't the money driver anymore;  a lot of times, like in primarily multiplayer games, it's actually free now, because the developers don't want to fragment their player bases. Cosmetics and lootboxes, those are the big money drivers for AAA games now. And, as Ubisoft and others have shown, they can show up pretty easily in single-player AAA games too (not that there's very many of those left anymore).

Has it changed? I know that EA used to release maps as DLC for Battlefield. I tried going to EA's website to see what it is currently like for Battlefield V but there is only a deluxe and standard edition without any hint as to what is different about either except for the price.

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55 minutes ago, Inigima said:

Depends on the genre and the details. Fighting games, for example, still routinely release roster updates as paid DLC. It doesn't fragment the base per se since you can still match against DLC owners if you don't have it, but I would certainly describe it as content, and I don't think you can work with the characters in training mode to learn them.

Cosmetics are huge for sure, though. 

Fair enough. Fighting games are a genre I typically stay away from. I think at least some of those games though do give you all the characters for free, but only with their most boring costumes.

44 minutes ago, Proudfeet said:

Has it changed? I know that EA used to release maps as DLC for Battlefield. I tried going to EA's website to see what it is currently like for Battlefield V but there is only a deluxe and standard edition without any hint as to what is different about either except for the price.

Map packs were one of the first types of paid DLC to go away, at least for most FPS games. There's probably at least one or two that haven't realized yet how badly they hurt their games; but most give those for free. Instead, it's cosmetics, consumable boosters, and battle passes (which I think are dumb as hell, but DOTA and Fortnite have proven that people love to buy them).

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4 hours ago, Proudfeet said:

But sometimes the base game is deliberately watered down for that DLC, so you aren't getting the full value out of the base game in the first place. Additionally, the DLC do not come cheap and they can also add up to multiple times the cost of the base game. What is a lousy value proposition from your perspective is an excellent value proposition in theirs. 

That's a common opinion among gamers, but as far as I know it is not generally one backed up by evidence.
 

4 hours ago, Fez said:

Fair enough. Fighting games are a genre I typically stay away from. I think at least some of those games though do give you all the characters for free, but only with their most boring costumes.

Map packs were one of the first types of paid DLC to go away, at least for most FPS games. There's probably at least one or two that haven't realized yet how badly they hurt their games; but most give those for free. Instead, it's cosmetics, consumable boosters, and battle passes (which I think are dumb as hell, but DOTA and Fortnite have proven that people love to buy them).

I can tell you that in recent memory I have played Street Fighter V, Guilty Gear Xrd: Revelator, Tekken 7, Mortal Kombat XI, and Soul Calibur VI, and I don't believe that was true for any of them. I'm struggling to even think of another major fighting game series that's even had a modern release, except Smash, which is pretty categorically different.

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1 hour ago, Mark Antony said:

E3 has been so underwhelming. Cyberpunk Keanu pretty much the only thing to be excited about 

I was just looking for a internet rage video to listen to on my way home from work but couldn't even find any games I wanted to hear about.

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5 hours ago, Inigima said:

That's a common opinion among gamers, but as far as I know it is not generally one backed up by evidence.

I mean, you could say that it was always designed to be sold as DLC from the start, but games have had DLC ready on release. 

I got this from a quick google. https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-04-02-capcom-defends-on-disc-dlc

It isn't proof but I don't see how you get evidence for design decisions.

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1 hour ago, Proudfeet said:

I mean, you could say that it was always designed to be sold as DLC from the start, but games have had DLC ready on release. 

I got this from a quick google. https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-04-02-capcom-defends-on-disc-dlc

It isn't proof but I don't see how you get evidence for design decisions.

I agree that it seems really gross, but see https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/08/ea-exec-says-complaints-about-on-disc-dlc-are-nonsense/

To understand why this happens sometimes you have to understand how large projects work. A feature set is defined and targeted and, hopefully, built. You can have a different group working on DLC, and developers aren't a fungible resource -- you couldn't necessarily just put those additional people on the "core" product. You also have to remember that developers aren't adding stuff right up to the day the discs are burned -- you have to have a point at which what's finished and included is locked. Large software projects have an insane number of moving parts, you never know what you'll break in part A when you change something in part F. It's an unfortunate reality of having tens or hundreds of programmers all working on the same product. The alternative is a moving target you can never catch.

I won't tell you you'll never find anyone abusing the process, but it's not half as common, or as cut-and-dried, as the gaming community thinks it is. Like a lot of technical fields, from the outside things seem simpler than they are.

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TW: Three Kingdoms - Kong Rong campaign continued

It is the period of the Three Four Kingdoms. That's right, if one plays with a governor, who can rise to king, but cannot declare himself emperor, three other warlords declare themselves emperors. Sun Jian and Liu Bei had already done so, before Kong Rong reach king status (Qi), which resulted in another (forget the name) in south-western China declaring, becoming the Kingdom of Ba.

The year is 223. Battles rage across eastern Wu, and the kingdom of Wu falters as the power of the kingdom of Qi grows. Wu suffered a great blow to its royal court, after a series of battles took out some of its most prestigious members. First, Kong Rong caught Sun Quan leading his army towards a friendly county, and in a tactical battle where the woods through which the enemy marched were set ablaze, Kong Rong defeated, captured and summarily executed the prince. Enraged, his father marched quickly, seeking vengeance. With the remnants of Quan's army joining him, Sun Jian challenged Rong, but the old king wisely retreated, and the Tiger of Jiangdong had to satisfy himself with taking a lumber yard and suffer significant losses in the process. Kong Rong afterwards moved to intercept. Jian attempted one last trick, an ambush, but failed. He was defeated and captured. Brought before Kong Rong, the Tiger released one last roar, after he was shown his son's head, and his daughter's, Sun Ren, arrow-riddled body, before his own head rolled on the ground. Thus Wu lost its king, and Sun Ce rose to the title.

In China's heartland, allies and enemies battle. Cao Cao continues to flip-flop, some turns being a staunch ally, others making peace with the enemy and conspiring against Kong Rong. Twice now both he and the Dutchy of Song (Yuan Shao) attempted to remove Qi from the coalition, but failed. Feckless friends, envious of the unmatched wealth of Qi. Their time will come.

 

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1 hour ago, Inigima said:

I agree that it seems really gross, but see https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/08/ea-exec-says-complaints-about-on-disc-dlc-are-nonsense/

To understand why this happens sometimes you have to understand how large projects work. A feature set is defined and targeted and, hopefully, built. You can have a different group working on DLC, and developers aren't a fungible resource -- you couldn't necessarily just put those additional people on the "core" product. You also have to remember that developers aren't adding stuff right up to the day the discs are burned -- you have to have a point at which what's finished and included is locked. Large software projects have an insane number of moving parts, you never know what you'll break in part A when you change something in part F. It's an unfortunate reality of having tens or hundreds of programmers all working on the same product. The alternative is a moving target you can never catch.

I won't tell you you'll never find anyone abusing the process, but it's not half as common, or as cut-and-dried, as the gaming community thinks it is. Like a lot of technical fields, from the outside things seem simpler than they are.

That's also pretty much what I said. I certainly wasn't using that as evidence. Its just that you can't prove anything. Evidence wouldn't exist even in theory. Its just that when games come out flat and feel incomplete, you really have to wonder. 

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10 minutes ago, Urien the Ragged said:

Well, Elden Ring was the single most exciting news I've ever heard. So there's that.

Martin meets Miyazaki-san. A match made in heaven.

 

True just wasn’t any gameplay but I’m sure it will be good.

Nintendo switch conference is actually pretty good. Much better than the pc one

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