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MCUniverse: Cat Scratch Fever edition.

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7 hours ago, Corvinus said:

Well in the words of Secretary Ross, those that didn't sign retired. Spidey clearly wasn't "retired".

In Homecoming they still were - you got the intro with Peter documenting his exploits in Germany, you got the gym teacher showing the Captain America video, but saying Cap might now be a war criminal, and the Accords were being taught in school. We don't know the full extent of the Accords, other than the vague "the Avengers need to be kept in check"

 

6 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

I think the Accords came about after the Avengers went from country to country as they pleased, so maybe they’re mainly focused on some formal way of requesting their help ... Spidey staying in the US might have helped, be good to see a mention in Far From Home. Or maybe, if people remember The Snap in any way, nobody really cares anymore.

EDIT: actually thinking about it, surely he would have signed up as part of Team Stark when he went to Germany? 

Yeah, I think the Accords are about trans-boundary activity. If you cross international borders and do superhero-y shit then the Accords will have something to say about that. Domestically it would be up to each country to decide how they regulate (or not) their super citizens. And honestly, as much as Tony wanted some oversight, I think he would also have lobbied hard for limited domestic regulation on his activities.

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11 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

EDIT: actually thinking about it, surely he would have signed up as part of Team Stark when he went to Germany? 

This is what I was thinking as well - he's fighting on the pro accord side so I have to assume he's signed them.

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Posted (edited)

AS a minor, would he be bound to the Accords?

Edited by Myrddin

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1 hour ago, Myrddin said:

AS a minor, would he be bound to the Accords?

Or he would need Aunt May to sign for him as his legal guardian, which obviously didn't happen, based on her reaction at the end of Homecoming.

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Spider-Man is clearly a vigilante in Homecoming, there’s no command structure or any kinds of rules he’s following. And the Accords don’t suddenly make vigilantism legal. So yeah, it doesn’t make much sense.  Seems like a 15 year old can run wild if he has the backing of a Stark or Fury, you have to wonder what the UN subcommittee (or whoever is in charge) are thinking.

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There's a cesspool of emerging pervs with powers who can't be identified or "stopped," right?  So the accords are for the big names who've come out publicly and who list hero as their occupation on their taxes.  But everyone else like mutants is flying below the radar, little spideys just acting locally in the neighborhood and nobody is equipped to wrangle all these unknowns to add them to the mutant registry....yet.   

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7 hours ago, Myrddin said:

AS a minor, would he be bound to the Accords?

Only in Texas.

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Like I said. The Accords are likely only covering transboundary activity, like everyone converging on Sakovia and destroying a whole city. Domestic legislation deals with domestic vigilantism. It's possible that a country would tell it's citizen heros that they have free reign to pursue super-criminals, but must abide by the Accords if they ever leave the territory.

In the US congress is probably still arguing about petty partisan details so they haven't passed any super-hero legislation yet. So Spidey is free and clear. Far From Home is either an Accords sanctioned activity, or Fury is still operating from the shadows and leading Peter astray.

The other question is, did Wakanda sign the accords? And if so, was their operation in Korea in Black Panther an Accords sanctioned activity, and if not, does that make Wakanda as guilty as the US in acting unilaterally outside of International laws they have signed up to?

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1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

The other question is, did Wakanda sign the accords? And if so, was their operation in Korea in Black Panther an Accords sanctioned activity, and if not, does that make Wakanda as guilty as the US in acting unilaterally outside of International laws they have signed up to?

That was an intelligence operation. T'Challa is also a head of state, and you could say he acted as an operative of the Wakandan gov. The CIA were there, and they didn't sign shit. 

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1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

The other question is, did Wakanda sign the accords? And if so, was their operation in Korea in Black Panther an Accords sanctioned activity, and if not, does that make Wakanda as guilty as the US in acting unilaterally outside of International laws they have signed up to?



Well wether they signed up or not (and I doubt it- they were hardly going to register Black Panther and blow their cover as an undeveloped nation were they- though other circumstances around the signing and BP's part in Civil War almost feels like they had to have? Really one to avoid thinking about too closely I feel) they've been breaking it big-time stylee by shielding Cap and Bucky, so a little unsanctioned operation against a wanted illegal arms dealer isn't exactly upping the ante.

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The Accords are an agreement between countries, true, but the regulations adopted by the US in ... er accordance with the Accords definitely seems to prohibit the kind of stuff Peter Parker regularly gets up to.

LINK to apparent regulations (isn’t sourced but seems to be from Agents of Shield tv show).

As for Wakanda, T’Chaka obviously wanted to sign up but I don’t know if it’s ever confirmed that T’Challa did, surely he must have.  I suppose he might have got UN permission for his Black Panther activities outside Wakanda though. I don’t think shielding Cap and Bucky is necessarily a violation of the Accords and presumably Wakanda isn’t signed up to any extradition treaties either so they should be fine in that respect.

 

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1 hour ago, Corvinus said:

That was an intelligence operation. T'Challa is also a head of state, and you could say he acted as an operative of the Wakandan gov. The CIA were there, and they didn't sign shit. 

The reason for transboundary activity wouldn't mater in the Accords. The Accords cover activities by powered individual from / in signatory states.

Quote

Any enhanced individuals who sign are prohibited from taking action in any country other than their own, unless they are first given clearance by either that country's government or by a United Nations subcommittee.

Governments are forbidden from deploying enhanced individuals outside of their own national borders, unless those individuals are given clearance as described above. The same rule also applies to non-government organizations that operate on a global scale (including S.H.I.E.L.D. and the Avengers).

Any enhanced individuals who do not sign will not be allowed to take part in any police, military, or espionage activities, or to otherwise participate in any national or international conflict, even in their own country.

As a corollary, they will not be allowed to participate in any active missions undertaken by private or governmental law enforcement/military/intelligence organizations (such as S.H.I.E.L.D. and the Avengers).

Any enhanced individuals who use their powers to break the law (including those who take part in extralegal vigilante activities), or are otherwise deemed to be a threat to the safety of the general public, may be detained indefinitely without trial.

Korea may have given Wakanda authority to act.

Bolded seems to give Spiderman clearance to act within the USA, so long as he obeys the laws of the USA. If he breaks the law then the underlined would apply, if the US authorities can catch and detain him.

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I think Wakanda being signatory to the Accords but breaking them is a pretty reasonable hypothesis - their entire world presence is a lie at the point the Accords are passed and clearly run black ops in other countries without concern for legalities. The operation in South Korea was 2/3 done by regular operatives rather than enhanced and seemed to share an attitude towards local authorities with the CIA/US. How they navigate the accords becomes much more of an issue after their "coming out".

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Yeah, Wakanda is considered an undeveloped African nation in Black Panther, you can imagine them approaching the UN overseer and saying “please can we have our enhanced individual in his super suit go into Korea for a very important operation?” And they’re like “aaw cute, course you can sweetheart.”

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Posted (edited)

I think Thanos has broken the cinema's booking system - it's crashed!

ETA:  And now I'm in a queue!  I've never been in an online queue for cinema tickets before!  Luckily my cinema seems to be showing Endgame every 10 mins!

Edited by Mosi Mynn

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19 minutes ago, Mosi Mynn said:

I think Thanos has broken the cinema's booking system - it's crashed!

ETA:  And now I'm in a queue!  I've never been in an online queue for cinema tickets before!  Luckily my cinema seems to be showing Endgame every 10 mins!

Literally came to post this exact thing ... estimated wait more than an hour?!? 

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5 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Literally came to post this exact thing ... estimated wait more than an hour?!? 

Me too!  Never had that before!

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