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Chris Mormont

Robert Screwed Up After The Greyjoy Rebellion

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What was Robert thinking in the aftermath of the Greyjoy Rebellion allowing Aeron, Euron and Victarion to remain free after the war was over.  Robert is relying on Balon's love for Theon to prevent another rebellion while allowing the men who planned and led the rebellion to remain free.  I understand those who may say, Balon suffered the loss of his 2 oldest sons, but that still wouldn't prevent a future attack.  At the very least, one of Balon's brothers should have been sent to the wall so their forces would be weaker in the future. 

If something happened to Balon or Theon, what would then prevent the Ironborn from rising up again?

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Robert had a big problem.  He won his seat through rebellion.  He can't very well say rebellion is illegal and punishable by death when he himself did it.  I have a problem with Robert but at least he was not a hypocrite.  I can give him that much credit.  Balon rebelled and Robert had some sympathy because he too rebelled.  

Robert's administration had to be forgiving because there were still a lot of people who were loyal to the Targaryens.  Jon Arryn the politician had to smooth things over.  Jon was a political animal.

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58 minutes ago, Son of Man said:

Robert had a big problem.  He won his seat through rebellion.  He can't very well say rebellion is illegal and punishable by death when he himself did it.  I have a problem with Robert but at least he was not a hypocrite.  I can give him that much credit.  Balon rebelled and Robert had some sympathy because he too rebelled.  

Robert's administration had to be forgiving because there were still a lot of people who were loyal to the Targaryens.  Jon Arryn the politician had to smooth things over.  Jon was a political animal.

Not that I’m for Robert massacring the Ironborn, but who would have complained that an unsuccessful rebel Greyjoy was executed by a successful rebel Baratheon?

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2 hours ago, Son of Man said:

Robert had a big problem.  He won his seat through rebellion.  He can't very well say rebellion is illegal and punishable by death when he himself did it.  I have a problem with Robert but at least he was not a hypocrite.  I can give him that much credit.  Balon rebelled and Robert had some sympathy because he too rebelled.  

 

Not really. Robert rebelled after the Targeryans "kidnap" his bride, killed his in laws and asked for his head. He had all the reasons and right for his rebellion.

"The battle screamed about Lord Robert and Prince Rhaegar both, and by the will of the gods, or by chance-or perhaps by design-they met amidst the shallows of the ford. The two knights fought valiantly upon their destriers, according to all accounts. For despite his crimes, Prince Rhaegar was no coward"

The masters even describe the Targeryans actions as a crime

Balon did not have any of this reasons. He even went on to fight in Robert's name at the battle of the Mander. He rebel for nothing and payed the price.

I do agree that Robert was soft on Balon, the very least he should have named another Ironborn as lord paramount instead of Balon and take part of his lands. 

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Robert was too use to turning his friends into enemies. He did it all the time with Targaryen supporters during Robert's Rebellion, so he probably never felt the need to dish out too harsh a punishment. 

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3 minutes ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

Robert was too use to turning his friends into enemies. He did it all the time with Targaryen supporters during Robert's Rebellion, so he probably never felt the need to dish out too harsh a punishment. 

 

He did punished House Connington though. he took part of their land 

"Robert Baratheon had completed the destruction of the griffins after the war. Cousin Ronald was permitted to retain his castle and his head, but he lost his lordship, thereafter being merely the Knight of Griffin’s Roost, and nine-tenths of his lands were taken from him and parceled out to neighbor lords who had supported Robert’s claim."

Robert should have done something similar to Balon and named someone else to rule the IB.

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22 hours ago, Son of Man said:

Robert's administration had to be forgiving because there were still a lot of people who were loyal to the Targaryens.  J

But he also needed to avenge those who had fallen for him fighting agaisnt the Ironborn and take measures they would not rebel again. As I first pointed out, Theon and a hostage is not a permanent solution. 

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6 minutes ago, Chris Mormont said:

But he also needed to avenge those who had fallen for him fighting agaisnt the Ironborn and take measures they would not rebel again. As I first pointed out, Theon and a hostage is not a permanent solution. 

Balon rebelled. Measures were taken against against Balon (hostage Theon). Balon was the Lord/King so Balon had to take the punishment.

Punishing Euron and Vic would acknowledge that Balon did not have control over the Iron Islands, which would have created a more volatile situation than was already present. I think punishing the brothers would have encouraged them to rebel against Balon.

I mean it worked didn't it? Balon didn't rebel again until after Robert was dead...

The idiot move was Robb sending Theon back home. That was the only thing holding Balon back from declaring himself King and rebelling again. In my opinion.

 

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IMO Robert already accomplished his goals when it came to the rebellion 

A) The Iron born were defeated rather QUICKLY.

B) They defeated the strongest castle the IB had atm. 

C) Robert proves that a rebellion against him is foolish and will cost you a few sons and the respect of your bannerman.

D) Robert didnt even need to call 1/4 of his strength to defeat an enemy which caused Westeros greif for thosands of years. 

 

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Robert should have taken Asha as well as a hostage. Based upon the known players in the rebellion (Stark, Lannister, Branches of Baratheon) you would think that she would go to one of their courts. Eliminate Stark since Theon is there: Dragonstone, Storm's End, King's Landing, and Casterly Rock. 

 

Alternative One: Behead Balon, make Theon Lord, and install someone loyal with a small garrison as Protector.

 

Alternative Two: Three brothers are more dangerous than one daughter in this society. Particularly for the Iron Islands. Take one of the younger brothers as a hostage in King's Landing.

 

Alternate Three: Destroy all of the ships of Iron Fleet. Permit and loan money to loyal "west coast" houses (Mallister, Glover, Mormont, Lannister, etc) to build up their fleets. There is no royal army so the idea of a monarch's naval base would be non-existent.

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On 3/21/2019 at 1:43 PM, Legitimate_Bastard said:

I mean it worked didn't it? Balon didn't rebel again until after Robert was dead...

The idiot move was Robb sending Theon back home. That was the only thing holding Balon back from declaring himself King and rebelling again. In my opinion.

I started another thread a while ago where I asked whether Balon was planning to invade the North even without Theon's return.  Balon had already called his banners before Theon had arrived back on Pyke.  And Balon did not have the reaction of a man who missed his son after not seeing him for 10 years.  I know Theon had sent a raven stating that he was coming, but we do not know how much advanced notice Balon had. 

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16 hours ago, Chris Mormont said:

I started another thread a while ago where I asked whether Balon was planning to invade the North even without Theon's return.  Balon had already called his banners before Theon had arrived back on Pyke.  And Balon did not have the reaction of a man who missed his son after not seeing him for 10 years.  I know Theon had sent a raven stating that he was coming, but we do not know how much advanced notice Balon had. 

This was my understanding as well. IIRC this is the first time that Ned travels South - or at least far from Winterfell and his banner lords - since the Greyjoy Rebellion. It's likely that Balon started thinking about rising up again as soon as Ned left to go North. Maybe even as far back as hearing that Jon Arryn had died, although I don't credit Balon with being smart enough to really guess Ned would replace him and go South. 

It sounds like the news of Ned being imprisoned/Robb calling his banners was really the catalyst for his plans.

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On 3/21/2019 at 10:43 AM, Legitimate_Bastard said:

Balon rebelled. Measures were taken against against Balon (hostage Theon). Balon was the Lord/King so Balon had to take the punishment.

Punishing Euron and Vic would acknowledge that Balon did not have control over the Iron Islands, which would have created a more volatile situation than was already present. I think punishing the brothers would have encouraged them to rebel against Balon.

I mean it worked didn't it? Balon didn't rebel again until after Robert was dead...

The idiot move was Robb sending Theon back home. That was the only thing holding Balon back from declaring himself King and rebelling again. In my opinion.

Vic and Euron were complicit in the crime of treason. They were actually the first ones to break the King's peace by burning the Lannister fleet at anchor. Whether or not they needed to be / should have been executed is up for debate. However punishing them as ringleaders should have been beyond obvious. No one was complaining when Edmure was sentenced to remain as a guest in CR for the rest of his life. Keeping Vic and Euron as hostages along with Balon and Asha would really have done a lot to curb potential rebellion, even after Robert died.

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