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Euron III Greyjoy

How far south will the Others get?

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I wonder if the fact that the Rhoyne froze as far south as the Selhoru during the last Long Night will indicate that 'Winter' will be less bad south of that line. Seems roughly on the same line of latitude as northern Dorne'/ Red Mountains. Oldtown is clearly above that line, at least on the map I am looking at.

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41 minutes ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

Well, Chekhov's Horn is in Oldtown, which is also where Euron Greyjoy is heading. 

Okay but would ya be tellin' me how many ships ole Crow Eye has. Vic has 93 of the 100 Iron Born fleet.

AND how Sam's horn now supposedly located in Oldtown cracks the Wall.

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I cannot fathom them getting beyond the Neck. It would be bad enough to raise the ENTIRE north. Once they can spread out and keep going across a wide span of land...I do not think the juggernaut could be stopped at this point. Going to need a hundred dragons.

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Posted (edited)

The main characters will die.  The people listed on Martin's letter to his publishers will die at the end.  Cersei, Sansa, and Jaime were not listed but they will die too.  The only ones alive are the boring people like Brienne, Gilly, and Theon.  Yes, Theon.  Theon because nobody expects him to live.  George wants to be different and he does that by killing somebody the reader loves.  This won't apply just to people.  Castles will crumble.  The throne will rust.  Casterly Rock will fall into the ocean with all its gold.  Westeros will be covered in ice when the last book ends.  The epilogue might see the ice starting to thaw and the survivors are now gray with age and thinking of home.  

Edited by Annalee

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18 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Winterfell and the entirety of the north will be destroyed. 

There's meant to be "a time for wolves".  I know the title of the last novel was changed from that to "A Dream of Spring" but the total destruction of the North seems at odds with that.  And though it's lost in time and myth the original destruction of The Long Night doesn't seem as total as what you have in mind.

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On 3/21/2019 at 3:29 PM, Clegane'sPup said:

My question is how do the Others get past the Wall.

The Black Gate.

What is the whole point of having a magical Aladdin type Cave of Wonders door if no magical beings can enter or exit it?

Open sesame!

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Posted (edited)

We have been reading these books for years. At some point the Others have to meet the Dragons.

Dany is still in Essos, I can never see her reach that far north at Winterfell.

I believe the North will be taken over. Words will spread and a lot the Northerners will flee south as refugees. Winterfell will be long gone.

From the moment the Others attack the first Northern city, hopefully Westeros will stop fighting with itself and start mounting a defensive strategy. Hopefully Dany and her dragons will come to the continent in time.

I think the most reasonable spot for the first major engagement is The Trident, in the middle of Westeros. The second will probably be the God's Eye. And it's only poetic if King's Landing got some action and the threat literally arrives to the steps of the Iron Throne.

If the invasion is not contained at King's Landing, its over for Westeros.

 

 

Edited by The Map Guy

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feel like if the Others get to powerful, nothing is gonna stop them from taking everything over. Hoping some northern holdfasts will keep them from getting south. think they won't get any farther than Moat Calin or Greywater Watch at the most. I'm picturing ancient Giants burried in the Barrowlands rising from their graves and fucking shit up. 

the South is fucked enough. We got Ironborn reaving the reach. The riverlands are a warzone. Probably a massive greyscale outbreak in the Stormlands. Cersei and the Faith militant will do all they can to destroy King's Landing. The Vale's gonna have to deal with Timmett and his Burned Men. maybe a squisher invasion in the crownlands? sure something is gonna happen to Westernlands and Dorne. 

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18 hours ago, The Map Guy said:

The Black Gate.

What is the whole point of having a magical Aladdin type Cave of Wonders door if no magical beings can enter or exit it?

Open sesame!

I like this :devil: better than the Sam has the horn that will bring down the Wall.

See the the thing is posters like to yap and argue about foreshadowing ---- the Black Gate, the tree at the bottom of a well under the Wall that only accepts the proper NW vow is located at the Night Fort. Iffin's I be membering correctly the Night Fort is where Stannis means to make his seat when he returns to the Wall.

:cheers:

 

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On 3/21/2019 at 2:42 PM, Lollygag said:

I do like the symbolism of the last fight going on at the Trident and God's Eye, and I do think something important happens here, but I can't see it as the last of it. Someone recently pointed out that Dany's vision was about overconfidence, meaning things initially go well, but she underestimates them. I'm just not pulling the right words to find who said that. Hopefully someone will recall and provide the link.

Well, Rhaegar rode to the Trident in force and felt quite confident about their chances. He was destroyed.

Daenerys can do the same thing: confidently ride to the Trident with the full force of her armies only to suffer a crushing defeat. In fact, if she was ever to lose a dragon, that would be the time.

But the mere idea that the Others would get that far south (when we say the Trident, we're not talking about the Twins, we're talking about Darry) says a lot about what's going to happen. Based upon the trajectory of the books and the gross gist of the show, that means the trueborn Stark kids are going to have to deal with:

  1. the Others besieging Winterfell and overrunning the North
  2. famine and disease (it's a good thing Winterfell has a pretty modern heating system)
  3. Littlefinger and any other political threat to their family.

Yikes! And with the North already bloodied and bruised by the War of the Five Kings, it's no wonder that they get completely overwhelmed.

It also speaks to the fact that Daenerys and Tyrion will likely be ignoring King Jon and wasting a lot of valuable time fighting Aegon, Cersei, Euron, Varys, JonCon Arianne, etc. Well...maybe not so much Cersei and Euron because those two are mad dogs need to be put down.

 It also makes me think that King's Landing is going to absolutely get trashed. The area where the Red, Blue and Green Forks of the Trident meet is not far from King's Landing at all.

On 3/21/2019 at 3:57 PM, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Winterfell and the entirety of the north will be destroyed.  However, since the north has a smaller population than the south, then it cannot be called tragic if only the north were to fall.  About half of us here could care less about the north.  George Martin wants to keep the story on the bitter side so the white walkers will make it to the south.  At least Casterly Rock, King's Landing and the Riverlands will fall to them.  Sunspear is too far to the south and will be spared from the white walkers but it will be inundated with refugees.  Dorne and the southern part of the Reach will suffer indirectly from the refugees.  

I think that thanks to JonCon, the southernmost areas of Westeros (particularly the Stormlands and the Reach) are going to really suffer from a greyscale plague. A plague that, if George Martin really wants to pay homage to the medieval era, like the Black Death is going to last for a long time. Long time as in people will still be dying and getting infected well after the series ends.

And I think that the Reach in particular is going to suffer mass casualties due to famine. They have been completely babied and coddled for far too long and the population is too high. Euron has been pillaging some of the most lucratively fertile areas in the Reach. He can make himself a lot of money reselling all of the plunder from the Arbor. And then if he gets to sack Oldtown, it doesn't even matter if he gets thrown out the damage will be done...

On 3/21/2019 at 2:42 PM, Lollygag said:

I never considered that the wights might be an issue past the point where things are resolved with the Others. That's interesting.  

Well, that's true -- they could still be an issue once the Others themselves have been taken care of. However, that's not what I meant.

What I meant was that dead bodies will begin reanimating and prey upon the living before the Others get to places. Remember how in A Game of Thrones when Jon Snow killed the two wights that attacked Mormont? The Others weren't anywhere near them and the wights were south of the Wall. 

I think that the southerners are going to start having a wight problem before they really start having an others problem. Especially in the Riverlands omfg...all of those unburnt corpses. It's going to be a nightmare.

 

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4 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I like this :devil: better than the Sam has the horn that will bring down the Wall.

See the the thing is posters like to yap and argue about foreshadowing ---- the Black Gate, the tree at the bottom of a well under the Wall that only accepts the proper NW vow is located at the Night Fort. Iffin's I be membering correctly the Night Fort is where Stannis means to make his seat when he returns to the Wall.

:cheers:

 

Remember, the story of the Rat Cook came from the Nightfort ... I am pretty sure we will hear his story again in the future, or something similar to it.

I also remember reading a passage that foreshadowed an invasion there ... i just forgot where in the novels. It has to with the swelling of numbers, under the Wall, and a cook. I really should write my notes down. :unsure:

Yea Stannis is given the Nightfort ... but if he takes Winterfell, hes gonna be chilling there realistically.

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

What I meant was that dead bodies will begin reanimating and prey upon the living before the Others get to places. Remember how in A Game of Thrones when Jon Snow killed the two wights that attacked Mormont? The Others weren't anywhere near them and the wights were south of the Wall. 

I think wights are allowed through the Wall if they were invited in, or brought in intentionally by the Night's Watch .... you know... as a guest.

Edited by The Map Guy

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12 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

I think that the southerners are going to start having a wight problem before they really start having an others problem. Especially in the Riverlands omfg...all of those unburnt corpses. It's going to be a nightmare.

I like the sound of that. The northerners, who thanks to the likes of Jon, Stannis, Melisandre, and Bran, are going to be well informed on the Others and their wights, and they will still probably get trounced. The southerners would have no idea what the hell is going on. Imagine if the prologue in ADoS was someone in the Riverlands who suddenly sees all these corpses resurrecting around them. 

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On 3/21/2019 at 3:57 PM, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Winterfell and the entirety of the north will be destroyed.  However, since the north has a smaller population than the south, then it cannot be called tragic if only the north were to fall.  About half of us here could care less about the north.  George Martin wants to keep the story on the bitter side so the white walkers will make it to the south.  At least Casterly Rock, King's Landing, The Twins, and the riverlands will fall to them.  Sunspear is too far to the south and will be spared from the white walkers but it will be inundated with refugees.  Dorne and the southern part of the Reach will suffer indirectly from the refugees.  

Oh no, not the Twins.  I hope not, but you're probably right.  Jon will be serving the Others by this time and marching along with the white walkers.  Queen Daenerys will melt them near the Trident, per her vision.  

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38 minutes ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Oh no, not the Twins.  I hope not, but you're probably right.  Jon will be serving the Others by this time and marching along with the white walkers. 

If Jon does end up with the Others, I imagine the Twins and its residents would be pretty high up on his list of places to destroy and people to kill. But hey, maybe Jon takes a ship down the White Knife, keeps left to the Three Sisters, and just bypasses the Twins altogether. 

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14 hours ago, The Map Guy said:

I think wights are allowed through the Wall if they were invited in, or brought in intentionally by the Night's Watch .... you know... as a guest.

That wasn't the point though. The point is distance. The Others weren't really anywhere near the Wall in A Game of Thrones. Yet the magic that re-animated the corpses was still in effect despite the distance.

5 hours ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

I like the sound of that. The northerners, who thanks to the likes of Jon, Stannis, Melisandre, and Bran, are going to be well informed on the Others and their wights, and they will still probably get trounced. The southerners would have no idea what the hell is going on. Imagine if the prologue in ADoS was someone in the Riverlands who suddenly sees all these corpses resurrecting around them. 

Yeah. Or imagine that after (or worse, during) one of battles fought between the forces of Daenerys and Aegon, that the unburnt dead bodies start getting up and attacking the living...regardless of whom they owe their allegiance to.

Because I think the Wall will fall and Daenerys will land on Dragonstone at the same time. They might not happen in the same book -- what the Wall falling in the very last chapter of Winds and Daenerys setting up shop on Dragonstone in Dream -- but it will chronologically happen at the same time or within close proximity of each other.

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10 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

That wasn't the point though. The point is distance. The Others weren't really anywhere near the Wall in A Game of Thrones. Yet the magic that re-animated the corpses was still in effect despite the distance.

What if the dead bodies that were brought in the Castle Black were already wights, but well disciplined. They we pre-programmed to played dead, until they reached the other side of the Wall. Once inside, they stop playing dead and execute their mission of an assassination, or perhaps a kidnapping of someone very important to them.

10 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Because I think the Wall will fall and Daenerys will land on Dragonstone at the same time. They might not happen in the same book -- what the Wall falling in the very last chapter of Winds and Daenerys setting up shop on Dragonstone in Dream -- but it will chronologically happen at the same time or within close proximity of each other.

I don't think Dragonstone is best place from Dany to land. Dorne is a better choice after making their allegiance official.

She and her dragons can work her way North on the map. The Others can work their way South on the map. And they all meet & clash in the middle of Westeros at the Trident.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, The Map Guy said:

What if the dead bodies that were brought in the Castle Black were already wights, but well disciplined. They we pre-programmed to played dead, until they reached the other side of the Wall. Once inside, they stop playing dead and execute their mission of an assassination, or perhaps a kidnapping of someone very important to them.

I don't think Dragonstone is best place from Dany to land. Dorne is a better choice after making their allegiance official.

She and her dragons can work her way North on the map. The Others can work their way South on the map. And they all meet & clash in the middle of Westeros at the Trident.

I don't think Dorne will be allying themselves with Daenerys. Not at first.

Remember, Quentyn Martell was killed. Yes, it was not Daenerys' fault. She wasn't even in the city. And it could be argued that it wasn't even the fault of Rhaegal and Viserion. But as we've seen with Oberyn, the Dornish aren't exactly rational people. Oberyn lost a legal battle (trial-by-combat) and died. Yet, half of Dorne was looking to go to war and the other half was just waiting for Prince Doran to say the word.

Plus, Arianne looks like she's going to put all of Dorne behind Aegon. If Daenerys challenges Aegon, then Dorne will either be split or they will hold fast to Aegon.

Besides....Dragonstone is the perfect place for Daenerys to land. She might not be able to land all of her forces there but Dragonstone is the best headquarters for her. For one, Dragonstone has a huge sentimental value for Dany and that's important because Dany is a very sentimental person. There are things on Dragonstone that she needs to see or have possession of to make the big finale feel like a big finale. Besides, the Tyrells currently hold Dragonstone and after the Tyrells are betrayed by Cersei, sabotaged by Varys and replaced by Arianne, JonCon and Aegon, they are going to want to make common cause with her.

Dragonstone is also an island fortress--an incredibly powerful one at that. With dragons, Dragonstone is unassailable: it's basically a heavy-duty aircraft carrier. You would need an air force, a navy and an army to besiege the castle.

And considering that Stannis was able to have his seat there and hold court for so long and be as poor as he was, Dragonstone is self-sustainable. Daenerys will be a lot richer than he ever was when she returns to Westeros.

I think Daenerys will try to base her forces either at Highgarden, Crackclaw Point, somewhere close to Casterly Rock, somewhere within the Red Mountains or all of the above.

Basically, I think the goal is to make Daenerys look like the Others to the southern-dwelling Westerosi. She'll eventually overrun the south but not until after Aegon/Arianne/JonCon/Varys/Cersei/Jaime/Euron/Doran do something to really piss her off.

Edited by Jabar of House Titan

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