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Platypus Rex

Poll: Is Lemore Actually Ashara?

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Posted (edited)

3This is a poll.  Please answer "Yes" or "No" to the following question:

Is Septa Lemore, the Tutor of Young Griff, Actually Ashara Dayne?

Not much context is needed here, as this is one of the identity-theories listed in the "Compendium of Theories" thread pinned at the top of this forum.  It is argued that Ashara may be alive, as it is said that her body was never found, after she threw herself off of the Palestone Sword tower.  Ashara is about the right age to be Lemore, being in Tyrion's estimate over 40, where as Ashara would be just under 40.  Stretch marks on Lemore's belly suggest Lemore, like Ashara, has given birth.  Lemore's swimming ability is argued to be consistent with Ashara's background, and it has been argued that Jon Connington seems to respect her as if she was of his own rank.

However, many alternative identities of Septa Lemore have been suggested.  These include, but are not necessarily limited to:  Mellario of Norvos, Malora Hightower the Mad Maid, Serra Mopatis (the supposedly-dead wife of Illyrio) or Serra's daughter, Wenda the White Faun, and/or Tyene Sand's septa mother.

Those who support the Ashara identity theory have different ideas about her relationship with Young Griff.  Some think Young Griff is her son by Rhaegar (or by whomever); and it is suggested that both Ashara and Young Griff have purple eyes.  However,  others think that Young Griff is the real Aegon VI, and that Ashara is supporting him out of loyalty to Rhaegar.  But this poll does not require you to take a position on such issues (unless you wish to).

Please feel free to give reasons for your answers, or otherwise elaborate.  However, I ask that you not argue with reasons given by other posters until the third page of this thread.  After that, have at it.

Thanks in advance for all votes.

--------------------------x

13 for to 27 against, so far

  • For: chrisdaw, Nevets, Annalee, Amris, bent branch, Igziabeher, the conquering bastard 25, Hugorfonics, Great Oshiro, The Lord of the Crossing, Aline de Gavrillac, Springwatch, Ialt.
  • Against;  Aegon VII [L=Malora], Plain Simple Tailor, Missing Benjen, broken one, DMC, Nezza86, Nowy Tends, Megavora [L =Jeyne Swann], Bael's Bastard, Alexis-something-Rose (L = Elia Matell), Daemon The Black Dragon, Karneol [L= Tyene's mom], Lynesse, Sigella, Prince of the North, SFDanny, Lollygag, White Ravens, The Map Guy, Crona, Kawall, Jo Maltese, Makk, Back door hodor, Ygrain (L = Wenda), kissdbyfire, JNR and (not counted) Platypus Rex [L = Mellario].

But remember, boys and girls, just because it is unpopular, does not mean it isn't true!

-----------------------------------X

Previous "Unpopular Theory" Polls (in order of popularity):

  • "Did Jojen Die Off-Page in DANCE?"*:  17 for to 31 against (35.4%).  Supported by  Gertrude, chrisdaw, WyldFyre, Penny's Got a Gun, Megavora, Back door hodor, Lost Melnibonean, Tucu, acwill07, Ibbison from Ibben, Son of Man, Remiem, OtherFromAnotherMother, Lynesse, Jo Maltese, Paltogue, Shara.  Opposed by:  HelenaExMachina, kissdbyfire, many others.
  • "Is Sweetrobin the Son of Littlefinger":  11 for to 20 against (35.5%).  Supported by:  Back door hodor, Lollygag, Haus Berlin, Legitimate_Bastard, LadyOlenna, Aurane, Lynesse, Aegon VII, Sigella, Lost Melnibonean, Prince Henryis
  • "Is the House with the Red Door in Dorne?"*:  9 in favor to 32 against (20.5%).  Supported by  TPTWP Timett, Sly Wren, Nezza86, Impbread, Sophia Wilson17, Sigella., Lollygag, Sweet Desire, Black Dragons.  Opposed by:  Ran, Ygrain, many others.
  • "Did Summer See a Dragon?"*:  8 for to 38 against (17.4%).  Supported by:  Legitimate_Bastard, rustythesmith, TPTWP Timett, Remirem, kleevedge, Gertrude, Wolfkin, sweetsunray.  Opposed by:  The hairy bear, kissdbyfire, Lost Melnibonean, many others.
  • "Is Jon Snow the Son of a Dayne?":  8 for to 40 against (16.6%).  Supported by:   Sly Wren, Enuma Elish, Vaedys Targaryen, JS97, SophiaWilson17, kleevedge, Luddagain, Maelerys.  Opposed by:  kissdbyfire, many others.
  • "Will Brienne Be A New Hound"*:  3 for to 13 against (18.7%).  Supported by:  Springwatch, the Other Wolf, Lollygag.
  • "Is Daario actually Euron?"*:  3 in favor to 43 against (6.6%).  Supported by: Adam Targaryen, Paltogue, BRANDON GREYSTARK.  Opposed by:  kissdbyfire, Lost Melnibonean, many others.
  • "Is Varys a Woman"*:  2 for to 32 against (5,9%).  Supported by:  Rufus Snow, Jabar of House Titan.  Opposed by:  The hairy bear, many others.
  • "Is Quentyn, called 'Frog', Still Alive?"*:  2 for to 46 against (4.2%).  Supported by: SophieWilson17, Tucu. Opposed by:  kissdbyfire, many others.

Voting still open in the original thread.  To save space, I have only listed the names of the brave souls who supported each prior Unpopular Theory, as well as one or two Forum V.I.P.s who opposed it.  No disrespect to the other Victorious Winners of the poll is intended.  The full tally of names of all voters can be found in the original threads.  While I do not county my own votes, those I support are marked with a "*".

 

Edited by Platypus Rex

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I think yes.

I believe Ashara to be alive, and Lemore is the best suspect at this time.

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1 hour ago, Platypus Rex said:

Is Septa Lemore, the Tutor of Young Griff, Actually Ashara Dayne?

Yes

I believe this after reading "Fire And Blood".  Quaithe is Lady Farman.  Lemore is Ashara.

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I'm 50:50 on this one....leaning more towards "no".

Age and the birth thing would match but I would be heavily dissappointed if her eyes turn out to be purple and Tyrion simply did not notice that important detail about her.

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I don't know but lean slightly towards a 'yes' on this one.

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I do not think so... Ashara is described as extraordinary beauty, while Lemore is just 'handsome'

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No.  This is probably the best question you've posed, but it still doesn't fit.  Wish it did.  I think it'd make a lot of sense, if only things lined up.  But they don't.

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That's a no from me, I am very certain Tyrion would have been able to work out who she was from her physical appearance.

Much more likely that Quaithe is Ashara I feel, hence the mask. Jorah would have recognised her otherwise. Whoever Quaithe really is she has a need to have her face covered and Ashara had a recognisable face. There's a lot of symbolism about stars with her as well, in one of Dany's final chapters in ADWD she dreams of Quaithe and it says that her face was starlight.... or something like that. Some people think that means that she is Shiera Seastar but I don't buy it. But then I think Ashara is Dany's real mother so maybe I'm looking for clues to support my theory. 

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27 minutes ago, Nezza86 said:

That's a no from me, I am very certain Tyrion would have been able to work out who she was from her physical appearance.

This. 

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Posted (edited)

No, I think that septa Lemore is not Ashara Dayne.

In my opinion septa Lemore is Lady Jeyne Swann, and also she is the Perfumed Seneschal from Quaithe's warning, and she is fAegon's mother (father is Barristan Selmy); Ashara Dayne is Jyana Reed; Quaithe is Shiera Seastar, and the Three-Eyed Crow, and the septa that was escorting Lady Jeyne Swann, when Jeyne was saved by Barristan Selmy from Kingswood Brotherhood (that's when fAegon was conceived); Wenda the White Fawn is Pretty Meris of Windblown (also she could be Brienne Tarth's mother). At least some of this could be correct.

Edited by Megorova

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5 hours ago, broken one said:

I do not think so... Ashara is described as extraordinary beauty, while Lemore is just 'handsome'

Age takes it's toll.  

10 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

This is a poll.  Please answer "Yes" or "No" to the following question:

Is Septa Lemore, the Tutor of Young Griff, Actually Ashara Dayne?

Not much context is needed here, as this is one of the identify-theories listed in the "Compendium of Theories" thread pinned at the top of this forum.  It is argued that Ashara may be alive, as it is said that her body was never found, after she threw herself off of the Palestone Sword tower.  Ashara is about the right age to be Lemore, being in Tyrion's estimate over 40, where as Ashara would be just under 40.  Stretch marks on Lemore's belly suggest Lemore, like Ashara, has given birth.  Lemore's swimming ability is argued to be consistent with Ashara's background, and it has been argued that Jon Connington seems to respect her as if she was of his own rank.

However, many alternative identities of Septa Lemore have been suggested.  These include, but are not necessarily limited to:  Mellario of Norvos, Malora Hightower the Mad Maid, Serra Mopatis (the supposedly-dead wife of Illyrio) or Serra's daughter, Wenda the White Faun, and/or Tyene Sand's septa mother.

Those who support the Ashara identity theory have different ideas about her relationship with Young Griff.  Some think Young Griff is her son by Rhaegar (or by whomever); and it is suggested that both Ashara and Young Griff have purple eyes.  However,  others think that Young Griff is the real Aegon VI, and that Ashara is supporting him out of loyalty to Rhaegar.  But this poll does not require you to take a position on such issues (unless you wish to).

Please feel free to give reasons for your answers, or otherwise elaborate.  However, I ask that you not argue with reasons given by other posters until the third page of this thread.  After that, have at it.

Thanks in advance for all votes.

--------------------------x

5 for to 9 against, so far

  • For: chrisdaw, Nevets, Annalee, Amris, bent branch
  • Against;  Aegon VII (L=Malora), Plain Simple Tailor, Missing Benjen, broken one, DMC, Nezza86, Nowy Tends, Megavora (L=Lady Jeyne Swann), Bael's Bastard, and (not counted) Platypus Rex (L= Mellario).

Ashara = Lemore and young griff is the boy born at the tower of Joy.  

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5 minutes ago, Victor Newman said:

Age takes it's toll. 

Looking at sb in her/his 40's you could still tell if the person is (was?) extraordinary beauty, unless she/he is devastated by some illness/ordeal. According to Tyrion Lemore is just good looking woman (and does not seem to be devastated at all).

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