The Ghost of High Heart, and a promised... “Prince”?

[kissdbyfire]

Let’s start by looking at what we have seen the GoHH say on page.

ASoS, Arya IV

“Beside the embers of their campfire, she saw Tom, Lem, and Greenbeard talking to a tiny little woman, a foot shorter than Arya and older than Old Nan, all stooped and wrinkled and leaning on a gnarled black cane. Her white hair was so long it came almost to the ground. When the wind gusted it blew about her head in a fine cloud. Her flesh was whiter, the color of milk, and it seemed to Arya that her eyes were red, though it was hard to tell from the bushes. “The old gods stir and will not let me sleep,” she heard the woman say. “I dreamt I saw a shadow with a burning heart butchering a golden stag, aye. I dreamt of a man without a face, waiting on a bridge that swayed and swung. On his shoulder perched a drowned crow with seaweed hanging from his wings. I dreamt of a roaring river and a woman that was a fish. Dead she drifted, with red tears on her cheeks, but when her eyes did open, oh, I woke from terror. All this I dreamt, and more. Do you have gifts for me, to pay me for my dreams?”

ASoS, Arya VIII

“That night the wind was howling almost like a wolf and there were some real wolves off to the west giving it lessons. Notch, Anguy, and Merrit o’ Moontown had the watch. Ned, Gendry, and many of the others were fast asleep when Arya spied the small pale shape creeping behind the horses, thin white hair flying wild as she leaned upon a gnarled cane. The woman could not have been more than three feet tall. The firelight made her eyes gleam as red as the eyes of Jon’s wolf. He was a ghost too. Arya stole closer, and knelt to watch.

Thoros and Lem were with Lord Beric when the dwarf woman sat down uninvited by the fire. She squinted at them with eyes like hot coals. “The Ember and the Lemon come to honor me again, and His Grace the Lord of Corpses.”

“An ill-omened name. I have asked you not to use it.”

“Aye, you have. But the stink of death is fresh on you, my lord.” She had but a single tooth remaining. “Give me wine or I will go. My bones are old. My joints ache when the winds do blow, and up here the winds are always blowing.”

“A silver stag for your dreams, my lady,” Lord Beric said, with solemn courtesy. “Another if you have news for us.”

“I cannot eat a silver stag, nor ride one. A skin of wine for my dreams, and for my news a kiss from the great oaf in the yellow cloak.” The little woman cackled. “Aye, a sloppy kiss, a bit of tongue. It has been too long, too long. His mouth will taste of lemons, and mine of bones. I am too old.”

“Aye,” Lem complained. “Too old for wine and kisses. All you’ll get from me is the flat of my sword, crone.”

“My hair comes out in handfuls and no one has kissed me for a thousand years. It is hard to be so old. Well, I will have a song then. A song from Tom o’ Sevens, for my news.”

“You will have your song from Tom,” Lord Beric promised. He gave her the wineskin himself.

The dwarf woman drank deep, the wine running down her chin. When she lowered the skin, she wiped her mouth with the back of a wrinkled hand and said, “Sour wine for sour tidings, what could be more fitting? The king is dead, is that sour enough for you?”

Arya’s heart caught in her throat.

“Which bloody king is dead, crone?” Lem demanded.”

“The wet one. The kraken king, m’lords. I dreamt him dead and he died, and the iron squids now turn on one another. Oh, and Lord Hoster Tully’s died too, but you know that, don’t you? In the hall of kings, the goat sits alone and fevered as the great dog descends on him.” The old woman took another long gulp of wine, squeezing the skin as she raised it to her lips.

The great dog. Did she mean the Hound? Or maybe his brother, the Mountain That Rides? Arya was not certain. They bore the same arms, three black dogs on a yellow field. Half the men whose deaths she prayed for belonged to Ser Gregor Clegane; Polliver, Dunsen, Raff the Sweetling, the Tickler, and Ser Gregor himself. Maybe Lord Beric will hang them all.”

“I dreamt a wolf howling in the rain, but no one heard his grief,” the dwarf woman was saying. “I dreamt such a clangor I thought my head might burst, drums and horns and pipes and screams, but the saddest sound was the little bells. I dreamt of a maid at a feast with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs. And later I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow.” She turned her head sharply and smiled through the gloom, right at Arya. “You cannot hide from me, child. Come closer, now.”

Cold fingers walked down Arya’s neck. Fear cuts deeper than swords, she reminded herself. She stood and approached the fire warily, light on the balls of her feet, poised to flee.”

“The dwarf woman studied her with dim red eyes. “I see you,” she whispered. “I see you, wolf child. Blood child. I thought it was the lord who smelled of death . . . ” She began to sob, her little body shaking. “You are cruel to come to my hill, cruel. I gorged on grief at Summerhall, I need none of yours. Begone from here, dark heart. Begone!”

There was such fear in her voice that Arya took a step backward, wondering if the woman was mad. “Don’t frighten the child,” Thoros protested. “There’s no harm in her.”

Lem Lemoncloak’s finger went to his broken nose. “Don’t be so bloody sure of that.”

“She will leave on the morrow, with us,” Lord Beric assured the little woman. “We’re taking her to Riverrun, to her mother.”

“Nay,” said the dwarf. “You’re not. The black fish holds the rivers now. If it’s the mother you want, seek her at the Twins. For there’s to be a wedding.” She cackled again. “Look in your fires, pink priest, and you will see. Not now, though, not here, you’ll see nothing here. This place belongs to the old gods still . . . they linger here as I do, shrunken and feeble but not yet dead. Nor do they love the flames. For the oak recalls the acorn, the acorn dreams the oak, the stump lives in them both. And they remember when the First Men came with fire in their fists.” She drank the last of the wine in four long swallows, flung the skin aside, and pointed her stick at Lord Beric. “I’ll have my payment now. I’ll have the song you promised me.”

The GoHH makes predictions, she dreams of things that will happen. She doesn’t give instructions, “do X and Y will happen”, like Quaithe telling Dany, “to reach the west, you must go east” (ACoK, Daenerys III). So, in a way, the things the GoHH says are somewhat similar to what Maggy tells Cersei... Maggy makes predictions about Cersei’s future, and maybe some of these predictions come true because of Cersei’s actions. But I digress... 

TWoIaF, Aegon V

“It had long been the custom of House Targaryen to wed brother to sister to keep the blood of the dragon pure, but for whatever cause, Aegon V had become convinced that such incestuous unions did more harm than good.”

<snip>

“Jaehaerys and Shaera would have two children, Aerys and Rhaella. On the word of Jenny of Oldstone’s woods witch, Prince Jaehaerys determined to wed Aerys to Rhaella, or so the accounts from his court tell us. King Aegon washed his hands of it in frustration, letting the prince have his way.”

ADwD, Daenerys IV

“Ser Barristan went on. “I saw your father and your mother wed as well. Forgive me, but there was no fondness there, and the realm paid dearly for that, my queen.”

“Why did they wed if they did not love each other?”

“Your grandsire commanded it. A woods witch had told him that the prince was promised would be born of their line.”

“A woods witch?” Dany was astonished.

“She came to court with Jenny of Oldstones. A stunted thing, grotesque to look upon. A dwarf, most people said, though dear to Lady Jenny, who always claimed that she was one of the children of the forest.”

“What became of her?”

“Summerhall.” The word was fraught with doom.”

 

I am very curious to learn what made Egg become [rightly] convinced that his family’s incestuous unions were harmful. I’m not sure we will ever learn. Maybe it’s as simple as being married to Black Betha Blackwood, and getting an “Old Gods 101” education. 

As to the second quote from the world book, I find the phrasing a bit odd. There may be absolutely nothing to it, but the way it’s written added to what we know from the GoHH’s predictions make it sound... a tad off somehow? Not off maybe, but as I listened to it the other day it got me thinking. About how the things the GoHH says play out, and also how it’s never stated anywhere that she urged or advised Jaehaerys II to wed his son to his daughter. We are also told by Ygritte how the FF, who mostly follow the OG  feel about incest. And then there’s maester Aemon...

AFfC, Samwell III

“Dragons,” Aemon whispered. “The grief and glory of my House, they were.”
“The last dragon died before you were born,” said Sam. “How could you remember them?”
“I see them in my dreams, Sam. I see a red star bleeding in the sky. I still remember red. I see their shadows on the snow, hear the crack of leathern wings, feel their hot breath. My brothers dreamed of dragons too, and the dreams killed them, every one. Sam, we tremble on the cusp of half-remembered prophecies, of wonders and terrors that no man now living could hope to comprehend . . . or . . .”
“Or?” said Sam.
“. . . or not.” Aemon chuckled softly.”

AFfC, Samwell IV

“No one ever looked for a girl,” he said. “It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar, I thought . . . the smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died. He shared my belief when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King’s Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet. What fools we were, who thought ourselves so wise! The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years. Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it.” Just talking of her seemed to make him stronger. “I must go to her. I must. Would that I was even ten years younger.”

 

What if there are more mistranslations and wrong interpretations at play here?

What if the GoHH’s prediction was a sort of warning? And not meant to encourage the marriage of Aerys to Rhaella at all? 

 

[SirArthur]

10 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

The language misled us all for a thousand years.

the question: Which language mislead whom ? 

A possible genderless language valyrian can not mislead Valyrians, so the translation error must be older. Are you proposing there is a dream language ?

[Lady Winter Rose]

You must admit prince part is retelling of something other person said - or Jaeherys misunderstood the witch or she dreamt something like dragon born out of Aer & Rae - after all, vision are trecherous.

[Lady Winter Rose]

Just now, SirArthur said:

the question: Which language mislead whom ? 

A possible genderless language valyrian can not mislead Valyrians, so the translation error must be older. Are you proposing there is a dream language ?

Well, prophet says dragon, Valyrian people say male dragon - it gender bias.

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

9 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

What if there are more mistranslations and wrong interpretations at play here?

What if the GoHH’s prediction was a sort of warning? And not meant to encourage the marriage of Aerys to Rhaella at all? 

All those are possibilities but it is more likely that Aemon has finally figured out the truth. 

[divica]

Actually, I think you have to take into account that by telling her visions to other people she is making some of them happen.

So, in the case of aerys and rhaella as long as she has proof that she can dream the future then their father would believe her when she says she dreamt that the promised prince would come from their union. From here it is a natural step to force them to marry without the GoHH giving him a direction.

[kissdbyfire]

8 minutes ago, SirArthur said:

the question: Which language mislead whom ? 

A possible genderless language valyrian can not mislead Valyrians, so the translation error must be older. Are you proposing there is a dream language ?

Bold: I imagine the original language is High Valyrian, but it doesn’t even matter. What matter is the error in translation, so whoever translated it was mislead. 

We are never told (iirc) if maester Aemon speaks HV, but I’d say there’s a good chance he does have at least some knowledge of it. His comment about dragons being both genders also seems to suggest he has read the prophecy in its original language... this prophecy is about a dragon that was promised, and people just assumed it was a prince. 

As to the rest, I’m not sure I understand what you mean. The translation has to come after the original?

And no, I wasn’t thinking of a dream language, but... we are talking about two things here: the original prophecy about a dragon that was promised, and whatever the GoHH said about something/someone coming from the line of Aerys and Rhaella. Maybe the prophecy and the GoHH are talking about the same thing, maybe not. The original prophecy doesn’t say anything about a specific lineage, as far as we know. But the GoHH does, and I would like very much to know what she said, and how she phrased it. Because even though Jaehaerys II took it as encouragement to marry Aerys and Rhaella, I am suggesting the possibility of the GoHH meaning it as a warning instead. 

 

1 minute ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

All those are possibilities but it is more likely that Aemon has finally figured out the truth. 

The possibility of the GoHH meaning something different than what Jaehaerys apparently took it to mean doesn’t really have anything to do w/ the conclusion maester Aemon reached. I think that he was probably right as well. 

[Black Dragons]

Aerys Targaryen was infertile he figure this out while he cheating on his sister wife Rhaella.  He knew that Rhaegar Targaryen was not his Rhaegar Targaryen father was Knight name Bonifer Hasty. That is why his hate of Tywin just grew and grew.

 

Aerys Targaryen pray and feast and pray and feast again to gain Viserys. "quote "Viserys is his father son"

[Ser Hedge]

2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years.

I wonder if the translation is from another language into HV. HV is still quite widely known on both sides of the Narrow Sea. I get that gender bias could be one reason that the possibility of a princess was overlooked if HV is gender neutral regarding Prince/Princess or alternatively if the the prophesy talks about a 'Dragon that was promised' and everyone assumed it must be a male. However, what translation is Maester Aemon talking about? It can't be HV to the common tongue, so it is more likely from another language into HV. Or should we ignore the reference to translation altogether? Even then, what's the significance of a thousand years? This would be just before the Rhoynish wars I guess.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

What if the GoHH’s prediction was a sort of warning? And not meant to encourage the marriage of Aerys to Rhaella at all? 

At the end of the day, it's all about the way visions are interpreted. We don't know what she told Jaehaerys. Was she straight forward and told him the ptwp was going to come from his children's line or did she give him a riddle and he interpreted that way. And that's the issue with visions, characters don't have the benefit of hindsight. 

We also don't know if Jaehaerys was planning on marriages for his children outside House Targaryen before the GoHH's intervention. 

For what it's worth, I don't think it was a warning to not marry his children. When the GoHH is visited by Beric and his men, she tells them that the old gods stir and won't let her sleep. So I do wonder if her visions are a constant thing or if she gets them on a need to know basis. 

And if the ptwp was meant to come from Rhaella/Aerys's line, then the old gods may have a vested interest in seeing them marry and have children. For that, I go back to Jaime's weirwood dream in the same book that prompted him to go back to help Brienne out, because she likely has an important role to play in the war that's coming. 

About what Maester Aemon told Sam, Melisandre says that the PtwP was prophesied 5,000 years ago. As far as I remember, we don't know where the prophecy originated from or what language is was originally written in. And I think that's the important part of it. We don't know how many languages it was translated in, if Maester Aemon and Rhaegar read it in High Valyrian or in the Common Tongue. If the translation was wrong because prince and princess are interchangeable, then the person who translated it made a booboo.

In any case, everyone seems to be following their own interpretation on who and what the ptwp is. 

It's not the visions that are the problem. It's the people.

[SirArthur]

49 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Bold: I imagine the original language is High Valyrian, but it doesn’t even matter. What matter is the error in translation, so whoever translated it was mislead. 

And that's where I disagree. When the language mislead for a thousand years, that means it mislead a lot of High Valyrian mother language speakers. That's my point here. The translation error is created when translated from language genderless (x) to language genderbased(y). x->y 

However, it mislead for a thousand years, that means that High Valyrian can not be the original language (as it was spoken during the thousand years). That's why I asked whom it mislead. Because if Aemon speaks about Valyrians, then the original source is not Valyrian. 

[Ser Hedge]

1 hour ago, SirArthur said:

However, it mislead for a thousand years, that means that High Valyrian can not be the original language (as it was spoken during the thousand years).

Exactly. Say the prophesy of the Ptwp was translated from the language of Ashai into High Valyrian about a thousand years ago and HV records it as 'Prince' while the original text says 'Dragon' (which are gender interchangeable) then that might reconcile all of Aemon's statements.

[kissdbyfire]

1 hour ago, Ser Hedge said:

I wonder if the translation is from another language into HV. HV is still quite widely known on both sides of the Narrow Sea.

Good point.

1 hour ago, Ser Hedge said:

I get that gender bias could be one reason that the possibility of a princess was overlooked if HV is gender neutral regarding Prince/Princess or alternatively if the the prophesy talks about a 'Dragon that was promised' and everyone assumed it must be a male. However, what translation is Maester Aemon talking about? It can't be HV to the common tongue,

Apologies if I’m being especially dense, but why not?

1 hour ago, Ser Hedge said:

so it is more likely from another language into HV. Or should we ignore the reference to translation altogether? Even then, what's the significance of a thousand years? This would be just before the Rhoynish wars I guess.

Yes, it could very well be from another language into HV and then into the CT. 

I think the reference to a mistranslation is interesting, but I wasn’t really focusing on which languages were involved. I’m more interested in other possible mistranslations. And what you brought up about another language being the original one makes it even more interesting. 

1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

At the end of the day, it's all about the way visions are interpreted. We don't know what she told Jaehaerys.

Well, yeah, that’s [part of] the point of the topic, in a nutshell!

 

1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Was she straight forward and told him the ptwp was going to come from his children's line or did she give him a riddle and he interpreted that way. And that's the issue with visions, characters don't have the benefit of hindsight. 

That’s one of the things I would really like to know: did the GoHH say anything even close to a “Prince that was promised” at all - meaning a hero/saviour type? 

Also, from what we’ve seen so far, I find it hugely unlikely that she said something so straightforward. And that’s why I’m so curious about the whole thing. 

1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

We also don't know if Jaehaerys was planning on marriages for his children outside House Targaryen before the GoHH's intervention. 

For what it's worth, I don't think it was a warning to not marry his children. When the GoHH is visited by Beric and his men, she tells them that the old gods stir and won't let her sleep. So I do wonder if her visions are a constant thing or if she gets them on a need to know basis. 

What’s the connection between it not being a warning and the OG stirring? 

I don’t think it matters much if her visions are constant or not, but I may be missing something. 

1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

And if the ptwp was meant to come from Rhaella/Aerys's line, then the old gods may have a vested interest in seeing them marry and have children.

I don’t know... what if this prince/dragon/hero type is a mistranslation? And from what we know, I also think it would be odd for the OG to be pushing or encouraging incest. 

1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

For that, I go back to Jaime's weirwood dream in the same book that prompted him to go back to help Brienne out, because she likely has an important role to play in the war that's coming. 

I think Jaime’s weir wood dream is something quite different.

1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

About what Maester Aemon told Sam, Melisandre says that the PtwP was prophesied 5,000 years ago. As far as I remember, we don't know where the prophecy originated from or what language is was originally written in. And I think that's the important part of it. We don't know how many languages it was translated in, if Maester Aemon and Rhaegar read it in High Valyrian or in the Common Tongue. If the translation was wrong because prince and princess are interchangeable, then the person who translated it made a booboo.

Or more than one, or just one but not what Aemon thought it was. Especially if it was translated from original into HV and then into the CT.

1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

In any case, everyone seems to be following their own interpretation on who and what the ptwp is. 

It's not the visions that are the problem. It's the people.

Always. 

1 hour ago, SirArthur said:

And that's where I disagree. When the language mislead for a thousand years, that means it mislead a lot of High Valyrian mother language speakers. That's my point here. The translation error is created when translated from language genderless (x) to language genderbased(y). x->y 

However, it mislead for a thousand years, that means that High Valyrian can not be the original language (as it was spoken during the thousand years). That's why I asked whom it mislead. Because if Aemon speaks about Valyrians, then the original source is not Valyrian. 

Gotcha. 

[Aline de Gavrillac]

3 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

What if there are more mistranslations and wrong interpretations at play here?

What if the GoHH’s prediction was a sort of warning? And not meant to encourage the marriage of Aerys to Rhaella at all?

Rhaegar came from Aerys and Rhaella.  Rhaegar was the one who ignited the feud that led to Robert's Rebellion.  RR was the worst thing to have happened to the realm.  Maybe some of the lines got misinterpreted.  Then if you believe in R+L=J, it makes Jon part of that line and he did make a big mess at the wall when he meddled with the Boltons.   Perhaps the prophecy was a warning after all.  But it's too late.  Rhaegar and his boy have already royally screwed up.

[Seams]

I've also wondered about the prophecy that motivated Jaehaerys to force Aerys and Rhaella into marriage. One guess was that Jaehaerys misunderstood that the two of them had to be married and create a child that would be the Prince that was Promised. I thought each of them could have children separately and those children or their grandchildren could unite to produce the PtwP. Their "lines" would produce the prince, in other words, not their "line".

[bent branch]

As has been said, the prophecy originally said the "dragon" that was promised. It may be pointless to try to say what language the prophecy was originally in, but it is certainly relevant to ask ourselves what culture and timeframe the prophecy is from. During the time frame of the story (and during the timeframe of D&E) dragon means Targaryen. During the time larger time frame discussed in AWOIAF, dragon means something different at different times.

I would argue that the "dragon that was promised" basically comes from four prophecies at four time depths, 5000 years, 1000 years, 400 years and about 90 years. To understand what "dragon" means we need to understand how the prophecies work together to paint a larger picture.

[kissdbyfire]

28 minutes ago, Seams said:

I've also wondered about the prophecy that motivated Jaehaerys to force Aerys and Rhaella into marriage. One guess was that Jaehaerys misunderstood that the two of them had to be married and create a child that would be the Prince that was Promised.

Yes, that’s what I’ve been thinking about. 

28 minutes ago, Seams said:

I thought each of them could have children separately and those children or their grandchildren could unite to produce the PtwP. Their "lines" would produce the prince, in other words, not their "line".

Interesting. I didn’t consider this possibility... To be honest, part of the reason I started thinking about the whole thing is that I have a hard time reconciling the idea that the OG, however indirectly, would favour or encourage incest. 

[kissdbyfire]

4 minutes ago, bent branch said:

As has been said, the prophecy originally said the "dragon" that was promised. It may be pointless to try to say what language the prophecy was originally in, but it is certainly relevant to ask ourselves what culture and timeframe the prophecy is from. During the time frame of the story (and during the timeframe of D&E) dragon means Targaryen. During the time larger time frame discussed in AWOIAF, dragon means something different at different times.

I would argue that the "dragon that was promised" basically comes from four prophecies at four time depths, 5000 years, 1000 years, 400 years and about 90 years. To understand what "dragon" means we need to understand how the prophecies work together to paint a larger picture.

I agree. But I’m not necessarily trying to dissect the ptwp prophecy. I am however very curious about what and how the GoHH said whatever it was she said. And whether there may have been some sort of misunderstanding there. 

The quick answer of course is, we can’t know because we don’t have enough info, but since we won’t for a while, we can speculate and throw some ideas around.

 

[Lollygag]

Bloody hell. I hate generating long, complicated replies on this forum. Got eaten. 

 

Short version of stuff I noticed:

• The stuff the GoHH predicts are short term. Knowing the PtwP is really far out of the range that we see her predict in. 
   
• GoHH talks about the (red) wedding and cackles implying that she sees it for what it is, and it is in the same time range that she predicts the other stuff. Yet she still sends Arya and whoever may accompany her there with no warning. Don't trust her. 
   
• She goes on about how fire's not welcome. When Arya feels threatened by the GoHH, she instinctively backs to the fire for safety. So why would the GoHH be hanging and serving the dragon and fire people? A bit weird. 
   
• A big, big deal is made of prices paid and cost negotiated. Maggy the Frog's obligatory answers are simple answers. What she offers freely screws Cersei up. The next time I can get to the full text of the GoHH, I'll be looking for what she says when there's payment of wine or song, and what she offers free of payment. 
   
• She drank the last of the wine in four long swallows, flung the skin aside, and pointed her stick at Lord Beric. “I’ll have my payment now. I’ll have the song you promised me.”  The Price that was Promised? Maybe a price wasn't paid and she took revenge. 

[bent branch]

1 minute ago, kissdbyfire said:

I agree. But I’m not necessarily trying to dissect the ptwp prophecy. I am however very curious about what and how the GoHH said whatever it was she said. And whether there may have been some sort of misunderstanding there. 

The quick answer of course is, we can’t know because we don’t have enough info, but since we won’t for a while, we can speculate and throw some ideas around.

 

As you demonstrated with the quotes, GoHH's prophecies are very symbolic with a lot of potential for being misinterpreted. What I was trying to say, is that perhaps the misinterpreting of a prophecy is part of the prophecy itself. While self-fulfilling prophecies are one thing, is it also possible that in a string of prophecies, past misinterpretations affect future prophecies. I don't know if I am explaining myself well, but GoHH's prophecy was based on what we now know was the misinterpretation of prince for dragon.