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Vaith

Is Asha pregnant?

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Saw this theory on Twitter and could not help sharing it with Westeros. :)

In A Dance with Dragons:

Quote

She would need to brew some moon tea or risk bringing another kraken into the world. What does it matter? My father's dead, my mother's dying, my brother's being flayed, and there's naught that I can do about any of it. And I'm married. Wedded and bedded … though not by the same man.

Asha never does brew that moon tea, of course, she is captured by Stannis... so this Chekhov's Moon Tea might have resulted in a pregnancy.

Her chapters afterward are only in a month or so afterward, so there would not necessarily be any obvious signs, apart from a missed period, which, due to being a prisoner of war in a harsh climate, is not going to be the most unusual thing or the most pressing thing on her mind.

Plus, "here's my lord husband, and suckling babe" is a gag of hers... well, she's been proxy married in the series, so perhaps the second part of the line is also going to have to come true through an unplanned pregnancy. 

I believe she can have a viable pregnancy, hardy as she is, but it will definitely be tough on her with the situation she's in. It'll also cause an interesting situation -- she can't shotgun marry Qarl since she's been proxy married, technically, but could she defy Euron and Vic and marry him anyway for legitimacy? Maybe. Could she be contrarian and claim Qarl as a "salt husband" alongside Ironmaker? Maybe. Could there be anything else to complicate her child's legitimacy? Maybe! It'd definitely make for an interesting scenario were she to (hopefully) take control of the Iron Islands at the end of the books...

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5 minutes ago, Vaith said:

Saw this theory on Twitter and could not help sharing it with Westeros. :)

In A Dance with Dragons:

Asha never does brew that moon tea, of course, she is captured by Stannis... so this Chekhov's Moon Tea might have resulted in a pregnancy.

Her chapters afterward are only in a month or so afterward, so there would not necessarily be any obvious signs, apart from a missed period, which, due to being a prisoner of war in a harsh climate, is not going to be the most unusual thing or the most pressing thing on her mind.

Plus, "here's my lord husband, and suckling babe" is a gag of hers... well, she's been proxy married in the series, so perhaps the second part of the line is also going to have to come true through an unplanned pregnancy. 

I believe she can have a viable pregnancy, hardy as she is, but it will definitely be tough on her with the situation she's in. It'll also cause an interesting situation -- she can't shotgun marry Qarl since she's been proxy married, technically, but could she defy Euron and Vic and marry him anyway for legitimacy? Maybe. Could she be contrarian and claim Qarl as a "salt husband" alongside Ironmaker? Maybe. Could there be anything else to complicate her child's legitimacy? Maybe! It'd definitely make for an interesting scenario were she to (hopefully) take control of the Iron Islands at the end of the books...

I don’t know if I’m onboard with this theory, but I think your reasoning is sound. Plus the idea of Asha claiming Qarl as a salt husband would be cool, as it shows how she flips ironborn gender norms on their heads. 

I’m starting to like this theory, actually. 

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If its a boy Euron would kill it 100% but also for the baby to survive full term in the environment asha is in would be difficult especially since Asha herself may not make it out alive lol. 

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12 hours ago, Vaith said:

Saw this theory on Twitter and could not help sharing it with Westeros. :)

In A Dance with Dragons:

Asha never does brew that moon tea, of course, she is captured by Stannis... so this Chekhov's Moon Tea might have resulted in a pregnancy.

Her chapters afterward are only in a month or so afterward, so there would not necessarily be any obvious signs, apart from a missed period, which, due to being a prisoner of war in a harsh climate, is not going to be the most unusual thing or the most pressing thing on her mind.

Plus, "here's my lord husband, and suckling babe" is a gag of hers... well, she's been proxy married in the series, so perhaps the second part of the line is also going to have to come true through an unplanned pregnancy. 

I believe she can have a viable pregnancy, hardy as she is, but it will definitely be tough on her with the situation she's in. It'll also cause an interesting situation -- she can't shotgun marry Qarl since she's been proxy married, technically, but could she defy Euron and Vic and marry him anyway for legitimacy? Maybe. Could she be contrarian and claim Qarl as a "salt husband" alongside Ironmaker? Maybe. Could there be anything else to complicate her child's legitimacy? Maybe! It'd definitely make for an interesting scenario were she to (hopefully) take control of the Iron Islands at the end of the books...

I think Asha is definitively pregnant. With the rest of the Greyjoy family dead or unable to procreate (hi Theon, but do you remember the sailor's daughter?), Asha may be able to claim the Iron Islands. But, I don't think that she will claim openly that Qarl is the father. She got a better idea from Alysane Mormont.

"No. My children were fathered by a bear." Alysane smiled. Her teeth were crooked, but there was something ingratiating about that smile. "Mormont women are skinchangers. We turn into bears and find mates in the woods. Everyone knows." - The Sacrifice, ADWD

Asha might try to claim that her son was fathered by a Kraken. If the Alysane got away with it, why not Asha?

 

 

 

 

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I think, that Euron is Urrathon Night-Walker (it's one of his aliases), and thus he is, most likely, a parallel to Urrathon IV Goodbrother, and will repeat his fate. In this case Theon is a parallel to Torgon Greyiron the Latecomer. So Theon will become King of Ironborn, after Euron's own people will overthrow him, and then Theon will name Asha's son as his heir (because he's unable to have his own children, and that baby by blood will be Greyjoy, and thus, will have a right to claim Seastone Chair). So this sort of plot twist, Asha's pregnancy, and the fact, that in the Winds Asha and Theon were reunited, is indeed very likely and convenient.

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3 hours ago, Stormking902 said:

If its a boy Euron would kill it 100% but also for the baby to survive full term in the environment asha is in would be difficult especially since Asha herself may not make it out alive lol. 

Good thing Euron is hundreds of miles away from Asha right now. :P

34 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said:

I think Asha is definitively pregnant. With the rest of the Greyjoy family dead or unable to procreate (hi Theon, but do you remember the sailor's daughter?), Asha may be able to claim the Iron Islands. But, I don't think that she will claim openly that Qarl is the father. She got a better idea from Alysane Mormont.

"No. My children were fathered by a bear." Alysane smiled. Her teeth were crooked, but there was something ingratiating about that smile. "Mormont women are skinchangers. We turn into bears and find mates in the woods. Everyone knows." - The Sacrifice, ADWD

Asha might try to claim that her son was fathered by a Kraken. If the Alysane got away with it, why not Asha?

 

 

 

 

Maybe. We know it’s obviously a joke, but we still don’t know if Alysane actually has/had a legitimate husband unlisted on the appendix that she just jokes about being a bear. 

Besides the Greyjoys don’t have that odd kraken story is the case.

If Qarl isn’t claimed as the father, she could make the claim of 88 year old Ironmaker doing it far away from her location. ;)

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14 hours ago, Vaith said:

Saw this theory on Twitter and could not help sharing it with Westeros. :)

In A Dance with Dragons:

Asha never does brew that moon tea, of course, she is captured by Stannis... so this Chekhov's Moon Tea might have resulted in a pregnancy.

Her chapters afterward are only in a month or so afterward, so there would not necessarily be any obvious signs, apart from a missed period, which, due to being a prisoner of war in a harsh climate, is not going to be the most unusual thing or the most pressing thing on her mind.

Plus, "here's my lord husband, and suckling babe" is a gag of hers... well, she's been proxy married in the series, so perhaps the second part of the line is also going to have to come true through an unplanned pregnancy. 

I believe she can have a viable pregnancy, hardy as she is, but it will definitely be tough on her with the situation she's in. It'll also cause an interesting situation -- she can't shotgun marry Qarl since she's been proxy married, technically, but could she defy Euron and Vic and marry him anyway for legitimacy? Maybe. Could she be contrarian and claim Qarl as a "salt husband" alongside Ironmaker? Maybe. Could there be anything else to complicate her child's legitimacy? Maybe! It'd definitely make for an interesting scenario were she to (hopefully) take control of the Iron Islands at the end of the books...

I don't think Asha is long for this world in any event. Now that Stannis has Theon he doesn't need Asha as hostage or, in his mind, use her in some way gain the Seastone Chair. So her king's blood will be more valuable in the pyre. . .

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29 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

I don't think Asha is long for this world in any event. Now that Stannis has Theon he doesn't need Asha as hostage or, in his mind, use her in some way gain the Seastone Chair. So her king's blood will be more valuable in the pyre. . .

Two claimants are better than one, especially if one is likely sterile and mentally destroyed, while the other, despite being a woman, is very Ironborn in how she owns it and has already made a bid for the Seastone Chair at the moot. Besides, how far does king's blood go if Stannis doesn't recognise Balon as having been a legitimate king? ;)

Do hope she lives to the end, myself.

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On 3/26/2019 at 11:25 AM, John Suburbs said:

I don't think Asha is long for this world in any event. Now that Stannis has Theon he doesn't need Asha as hostage or, in his mind, use her in some way gain the Seastone Chair. So her king's blood will be more valuable in the pyre. . .

Between the two, I think Theon is more likely to be killed.

The northems hate his guts for his betrayal, and Asha can be married of to someone else in Stannis camp.

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16 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Between the two, I think Theon is more likely to be killed.

The northems hate his guts for his betrayal, and Asha can be married of to someone else in Stannis camp.

Maybe, but to Stannis' way of thinking, a male heir is more valuable than a female one, and, according to greenlander laws, Theon's claim to the Seastone Chair supersedes Euron's, while Asha's does not. Although, just like his misperception of the wildlings, Stannis doesn't realize that the ironborn would probably consider Asha a more suitable sovereign than Theon. But if Euron crashes and burns, they would most likely prefer Victarian over both.

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It would make sense. Theon cant have children anymore, Victarion is probably going to die in the Meereen battle, there's no way Aeron is having children, Euron does have bastard children, but I don't think the Ironborn will want his children as the next ruler of them, in the same sense that the great council didn't want Aerion Brightflame's son to be the next King. 

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6 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Maybe, but to Stannis' way of thinking, a male heir is more valuable than a female one, and, according to greenlander laws, Theon's claim to the Seastone Chair supersedes Euron's, while Asha's does not. Although, just like his misperception of the wildlings, Stannis doesn't realize that the ironborn would probably consider Asha a more suitable sovereign than Theon. But if Euron crashes and burns, they would most likely prefer Victarian over both.

Uh, this is the other way round. Asha points out that there are women ruling in most of Westeros (Arwyn Oakheart, Anya Waynwood) but Rodrik points out this isn’t so in the Isles and that there are usually never female rulers. Asha is able to try and claim the throne by vote because she’s very tenacious and unusual, but her AFFC chapters have gender as a main barrier to rule.

In Stannis’s view she can be installed as a ruler — and I think both mainlanders and Ironborn might let a sister come before a brother if he is a eunuch.

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9 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Maybe, but to Stannis' way of thinking, a male heir is more valuable than a female one, and, according to greenlander laws, Theon's claim to the Seastone Chair supersedes Euron's, while Asha's does not. Although, just like his misperception of the wildlings, Stannis doesn't realize that the ironborn would probably consider Asha a more suitable sovereign than Theon. But if Euron crashes and burns, they would most likely prefer Victarian over both.

Daughter before uncle, on paper at least. See Alys Karstark.

as for sparing theon, no. Stannis burned Mance because that was the man the North needed to see burn. Theon is the man the North need to see executed for murdering their Princes

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17 hours ago, Vaith said:

Uh, this is the other way round. Asha points out that there are women ruling in most of Westeros (Arwyn Oakheart, Anya Waynwood) but Rodrik points out this isn’t so in the Isles and that there are usually never female rulers. Asha is able to try and claim the throne by vote because she’s very tenacious and unusual, but her AFFC chapters have gender as a main barrier to rule.

In Stannis’s view she can be installed as a ruler — and I think both mainlanders and Ironborn might let a sister come before a brother if he is a eunuch.

Disagree. Stannis is very uncomfortable around women, he's very traditional, very southron. An older brother comes before a younger sister, that is the law. But the eunuch thing might be a game changer, if Stannis even knows about that. Maybe he'll torch them both.

14 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Daughter before uncle, on paper at least. See Alys Karstark.

as for sparing theon, no. Stannis burned Mance because that was the man the North needed to see burn. Theon is the man the North need to see executed for murdering their Princes

Older brother before younger sister, though.

The north didn't have that much hostility toward Mance. They would have if he had broken through the Wall, but it's the NW that had an interest in Mance's death, which Stannis didn't actually fulfill considering Mance is still alive. But sure, the North would want to see Theon hang, but he is still valuable to Stannis -- more valuable than Asha.

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58 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

Disagree. Stannis is very uncomfortable around women, he's very traditional, very southron. An older brother comes before a younger sister, that is the law. But the eunuch thing might be a game changer, if Stannis even knows about that. Maybe he'll torch them both.

Older brother before younger sister, though.

The north didn't have that much hostility toward Mance. They would have if he had broken through the Wall, but it's the NW that had an interest in Mance's death, which Stannis didn't actually fulfill considering Mance is still alive. But sure, the North would want to see Theon hang, but he is still valuable to Stannis -- more valuable than Asha.

No, Balon's children come before his siblings. Hence why Alys comes before Arnold and Cregan. Again, on paper at least. Obviously these things are rarely as straight forward as that in practice.

It's debatable whether stannis knows nance wasn't burned or not. From the wording of your post, I suspect we both agree that he does know. But the point was more that he is aware of the importance of appearances. Mance had to die to make a statement, so "Mance" was the man that burned. Theon is the man who seized Winterfell and butchered the Stark boys. He is the one Stannis has to execute to appease his new allies. 

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On 3/26/2019 at 8:31 AM, Megorova said:

I think, that Euron is Urrathon Night-Walker (it's one of his aliases), and thus he is, most likely, a parallel to Urrathon IV Goodbrother, and will repeat his fate. In this case Theon is a parallel to Torgon Greyiron the Latecomer. So Theon will become King of Ironborn, after Euron's own people will overthrow him, and then Theon will name Asha's son as his heir (because he's unable to have his own children, and that baby by blood will be Greyjoy, and thus, will have a right to claim Seastone Chair). So this sort of plot twist, Asha's pregnancy, and the fact, that in the Winds Asha and Theon were reunited, is indeed very likely and convenient.

It is known. 

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4 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Disagree. Stannis is very uncomfortable around women, he's very traditional, very southron. An older brother comes before a younger sister, that is the law. But the eunuch thing might be a game changer, if Stannis even knows about that. Maybe he'll torch them both.

The same south of Westeros that has allowed Alysanne Lefford, Arwyn Oakheart, Anya Waynwood, Shyra Errol, Jeyne Arryn, Ellyn Caron, Agnes Blackwood, Rohanne Webber and Rhea Royce to inherit? 

The same Stannis that has named his daughter as heir instead of ever considering some distant male relative with Baratheon blood?

Theon is also so obviously mentally and physically tortured that it will be a barrier even discounting a knowledge of sterility.

3 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

No, Balon's children come before his siblings. Hence why Alys comes before Arnold and Cregan. Again, on paper at least. Obviously these things are rarely as straight forward as that in practice.

It is implied that the Isles themselves are stricter in this regard by Rodrik the Reader (though he seems to muddle most greenlands succession with Dornish succession) but due to her fierce character, the Isles won’t exactly seek to immediately overthrow Asha if she’s installed by someone or claims the throne in battle.

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On 3/29/2019 at 3:20 PM, Vaith said:

The same south of Westeros that has allowed Alysanne Lefford, Arwyn Oakheart, Anya Waynwood, Shyra Errol, Jeyne Arryn, Ellyn Caron, Agnes Blackwood, Rohanne Webber and Rhea Royce to inherit? 

The same Stannis that has named his daughter as heir instead of ever considering some distant male relative with Baratheon blood?

Theon is also so obviously mentally and physically tortured that it will be a barrier even discounting a knowledge of sterility.

It is implied that the Isles themselves are stricter in this regard by Rodrik the Reader (though he seems to muddle most greenlands succession with Dornish succession) but due to her fierce character, the Isles won’t exactly seek to immediately overthrow Asha if she’s installed by someone or claims the throne in battle.

Wives can inherit from their husbands, even if they have sons apparently, but younger sisters cannot surpass older brothers, or younger brothers for that matter. Shireen is Stannis' only child. If Sylese were to produce a son, he would become heir over Shireen. That is the law, and Stannis is a stickler for the law.

So I still give the odds for Asha to be burned before Theon. Theon is more valuable.

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40 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

Wives can inherit from their husbands, even if they have sons apparently, but younger sisters cannot surpass older brothers, or younger brothers for that matter. Shireen is Stannis' only child. If Sylese were to produce a son, he would become heir over Shireen. That is the law, and Stannis is a stickler for the law.

So I still give the odds for Asha to be burned before Theon. Theon is more valuable.

I'm not sure where you're getting the spousal inheritance with sons thing from. Lady Waynwood, for example, is definitely the daughter of the previous Lord Waynwood rather than a widow who's now ruling; Jeyne Arryn inherited the Vale after her father and brothers were killed by clansmen, Rohanne Webber inherited from her own father, etc. The only examples we have of known widows of lords ruling are Donella Hornwood (after the death of her husband and their only son), Shella Whent (after the death of all her children), and Barbrey Dustin (childless).

I'm not claiming Stannis is the sort of person to undermine the traditional line of succession, but it's also the law that a man of the Night's Watch cannot be released from his vows except in death, yet Stannis offers to try and make Jon the Lord of Winterfell because it's far more politically viable to him than naming the missing, suspected murderer that is Sansa as Lady of Winterfell. In the same vein, Theon is so mentally and physically destroyed, and a eunuch, that it's not too far fetched for him to acknowledge the Ironborn might accept Asha.

Plus, on this burning thing... if Melisandre initiates it, cool. But Stannis? Being the stickler that he is, he's not going to contemplate that Balon was a legitimate king, I think. Edric Storm is Robert's son, but Asha is the daughter of a false claimant (in his view), with the most king's blood coming from ancient Kingsmoot kings. So I'm not really sure if she's doomed at this point.

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