UK Politics: What Goes DUP Must Come Down

[The Anti-Targ]

10 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Some might, I'm sure, I'm not however. But that is a different conversation.

However there is such a thing as national identity, we shouldn't pretend that it either doesn't exist, or is in some way inherently evil ( an argument often thrown out at anyone discussing immigration) 

Has anyone lost their national identity, or been in danger of losing it, while being in the EU? AFAIK every country has maintained its national character. It's complete BS. Even cultures that have been invaded, colonised and almost wiped out (by Europeans, including the British, for the most part) have managed to survive for hundreds of years after being systematically oppressed and almost made extinct. Some are even experiencing somewhat of a revival. Used to be that children were given the cane for speaking Maori at school here, to the point the language almost died. Now Maori and non-Maori NZers are falling over themselves to learn the language.

Predictions of the death of national identity and culture by being in the EU are vastly and dramatically overblown.

[Gorn]

Ironically, England has been quite successful in almost wiping out local cultural identities and languages in Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Cornwall, so you might say they have some experience with the subject.

[Mosi Mynn]

19 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

It was stupid of them to use the term. So they are either stupid or stupid AND racist. I suppose being the former is better.

It's a silly term anyway.  Even if there was no KKK connection they would look stupid.

[Mosi Mynn]

9 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Predictions of the death of national identity and culture by being in the EU are vastly and dramatically overblown.

QfT.

Just look at France.

[Vaith]

According to some there’s “less cultural identity because I read in the Mail that this town 200 miles away is making accomodations for kids who have Polish as their first language”

If I respond asking why some Spanish tourist destinations near enough forced all locals to learn English to keep the economy afloat — well, that’s not a real problem, because they’re just a holiday country in the end to them.

[Jo498]

Being in the EU is but one very small factor among the forces of globalization and homogeneisation on the one hand and the arising of "parallel cultures" and ghettoization of some cities on the other hand. So I think blaming the EU is almost attacking a strawman. But to deny these tendencies would be ignorance. And I think one should have the liberty to not fully embrace such developments without being called a Nazi or racist. There are countries founded on immigration (usually after subjugation of the former inhabitants) like in the Americas or Australia and there are those overwhelmingly dominated by one ethnicity (like Germany or Sweden). It seems somewhat imperialistic to demand that everybody should eventually follow the first model.

[Spockydog]

39 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

However there is such a thing as national identity, we shouldn't pretend that it either doesn't exist, or is in some way inherently evil ( an argument often thrown out at anyone discussing immigration) 

Nor should we pretend that our culture is being somehow eroded by being in the EU. I mean, we've been in for fifty odd years but we still have Morris Dancers, Pearly Kings and Queens, and twats who dress up as crusaders to go and watch the national team play our national sport.

 

[Mosi Mynn]

Just now, Spockydog said:

we still have morriss dancers, pearly kings and queens, and twats who dress up as crusaders to go and watch the national team play our national sport.

 

A sad representation of UK culture!  

[Spockydog]

41 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

some bollocks about British Cultural Identity

Okay come on. Give me one example of British Culture being adversely affected by our membership of the EU, that isn't racist.

[Which Tyler]

33 minutes ago, Gorn said:

Ironically, England has been quite successful in almost wiping out local cultural identities and languages in Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Cornwall, so you might say they have some experience with the subject.

Not terribly successful though, give that they're still around after 1,000 years of oppression, albeit horrendously reduced.

[Heartofice]

9 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Okay come on. Give me one example of British Culture being adversely affected by our membership of the EU, that isn't racist.

What you have to understand is that the EU hasn't been the same over its lifetime, and it has become more centralised and political as time has gone on, and will continue to do so.

This is about the EUs future direction of travel and where it is headed. Which IMO can only ever be about creating a Federalised country of its own. That will take many years I'm sure but I think it will happen. Ultimately that means the loss of sovereignty and individual cultures. It might not have happened yet although you already see people who identify as European first over their national identity.

[Spockydog]

7 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

What you have to understand is that the EU hasn't been the same over its lifetime, and it has become more centralised and political as time has gone on, and will continue to do so.

This is about the EUs future direction of travel and where it is headed. Which IMO can only ever be about creating a Federalised country of its own. That will take many years I'm sure but I think it will happen. Ultimately that means the loss of sovereignty and individual cultures. It might not have happened yet although you already see people who identify as European first over their national identity.

So, you can't name one example. Thank you. 

[Heartofice]

1 minute ago, Spockydog said:

So, you can't name one example. Thanks you. 

Because the question is irrelevant.

[Spockydog]

22 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Because the question is irrelevant.

You made it relevant when you spoke about 'maintaining british culture'. Your words, not mine.

And it's not just relevant because you said it. It's precisely this type of brainless, unsubstantiated bullshit being spouted by the likes of Nigel Farage and Tommy Robinson that has helped lead us to where we are today.

"Fucking Beaker People, coming over 'ere..."

[Pebble thats Stubby]

14 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

What you have to understand is that the EU hasn't been the same over its lifetime, and it has become more centralised and political as time has gone on, and will continue to do so.

This is about the EUs future direction of travel and where it is headed. Which IMO can only ever be about creating a Federalised country of its own. That will take many years I'm sure but I think it will happen. Ultimately that means the loss of sovereignty and individual cultures. It might not have happened yet although you already see people who identify as European first over their national identity.

funny fact,   before the referendum I identified as British then European.  After European and reluctantly British.

 

So in my case Brexit has sped up my loss on national identity, not protected me from it.

[Vaith]

I don't know, people identifying as European for whatever reason seem like it's just an outwardly political declaration than any real internal feeling. Or just a sort of... culture is meaningless way. Before the modern period, people from different minor regions would have considered themselves quite strange. National identity itself is artificial on some level, and so too will continental identity if that's ever a thing. With the digital age I can easily find I have more in common with someone in Tennessee or Thailand than my next door neighbour. 

But if this geopolitical speed-up is unstoppable as suggested, I don't know how Britain benefits from being outside the club, and being a state that's just constrained by its other commitments. Three Arrows had a good video on this where he recounted how Iceland was able to win the Cod War after threatening to pull out of NATO, for example. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

You’re still talking about the KKK?

Look, these people used racist dog whistles during the Brexit campaign so they lose the benefit of the doubt now. Full stop. That’s all that needs to be said.

Now please, get back to figuring out your s*** because you have a legitimate chance of crashing out and tanking the global economy.

[Werthead]

A cutting assessment from the New Statesman.

I particularly liked the pointing out that the ERG is the Conservative Party's own Militant Tendency (or Tea Party), a party-within-a-party wielding a lot of influence despite its small size and lack of support in the wider country.

[Spockydog]

2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

You’re still talking about the KKK?

Look, these people used racist dog whistles during the Brexit campaign so they lose the benefit of the doubt now. Full stop. That’s all that needs to be said.

Now please, get back to figuring out your s*** because you have a legitimate chance of crashing out and tanking the global economy.

The fuck can any of us do about it? We are governed by maniacs.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

1 minute ago, Werthead said:

I particularly liked the pointing out that the ERG is the Conservative Party's own Militant Tendency (or Tea Party), a party-within-a-party wielding a lot of influence despite its small size and lack of support in the wider country.

Hum, is it just me, or does make the likening the ERG to the Tea Party the further definition of a party-within-a-party wielding a lot of influence despite its small size and lack of support in the wider country, a weeeeee bit redundant? Anyway, if the GOP is anything to go by, then the Americans are just a bit ahead of the curve, and the Tories are inevitably on their way to take the short bus to crazytown.