UK Politics: What Goes DUP Must Come Down

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Anyway.

Those in need of some positive/optimistic words.

Ian Dunt's take on what happened today, I am pretty much in agreement with him. Editorial note. Optimistic Dunt is way less funny when you read him.

[Philokles]

In other news, Vote Leave have used the chaos to quietly bury the news that they are no longer contesting the Electoral Commission’s findings that they broke the law in the referendum campaign.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/29/vote-leave-drops-appeal-against-fine-for-electoral-offences

[Spockydog]

5 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Anyway.

Those in need of some positive/optimistic words.

Ian Dunt's take on what happened today, I am pretty much in agreement with him. Editorial note. Optimistic Dunt is way less funny when you read him.

I'm delighted. As it said in the piece, today was a huge victory for Remainers. 

[Spockydog]

Oh, look. It's just gone 11pm on the 29th March and we are still in the European Union.

To everyone who continues to believe that Brexit is the best thing for our country. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Go fuck yourselves.

Oh yeah, and believe me, this kind of shit is not helping your cause. Not one bit.

 

 

 

[HexMachina]

10 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said:

Which part of Rees Mogg dodging taxes for years and making millions on our failing economy are you pretending didn't happen?

Whose alt are you again? I forget.

Theres no evidence he KNEW he was making money on our failing economy because not everyone knows about that and you’re all conspiracy theorists and i am the one and only one in the right

[The Marquis de Leech]

My money's on No Deal on 12th April - whereupon May quits, pointing the finger at the other parties for not backing her proposal (seriously, there's going to be a lot of finger pointing over this). 

[Impmk2]

11 minutes ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

My money's on No Deal on 12th April - whereupon May quits, pointing the finger at the other parties for not backing her proposal (seriously, there's going to be a lot of finger pointing over this). 

Pretty much this.

Any other option relies on coming up with a coherent plan. Hasn't happened in the last few years, no indication it'll suddenly happen now. The EU may not be willing to kick the can further down the road in the absence of one, even if an extension is asked for.

[Impmk2]

Whoops double post

[Martell Spy]

Hello. Has Brexit killed you all yet? Is England still there? Is Whales?

[Heartofice]

I roll my eyes at the same people wanting to search for the most ‘out there’ explanations for Brexit other than the one that is most obvious: that Brits have been eurosceptics for decades and if you’d asked the same question at any time in the last few decades you’d risk the same answer. 

Also that the EU is a flawed, opaque institution that could do with reform, but would never reform in a way that a country like the UK would prefer, doesn’t for some reason, come into it. 

[The Anti-Targ]

3 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I roll my eyes at the same people wanting to search for the most ‘out there’ explanations for Brexit other than the one that is most obvious: that Brits have been eurosceptics for decades and if you’d asked the same question at any time in the last few decades you’d risk the same answer. 

Also that the EU is a flawed, opaque institution that could do with reform, but would never reform in a way that a country like the UK would prefer, doesn’t for some reason, come into it. 

Except of course that one time when you were asked about it, and you decided to join.

It's not like every other national and supra-national governance system in existence right now isn't flawed. Most of the systems are more deeply flawed than the EU.

I'm not sure about all the people saying the EU is going to get all pissy with the UK and tell it to bugger of and live or die with a no-deal Brexit. The UK will of course be hit hardest by a no-deal Brexit. But since Britain is one of the biggest and most important economies in the world, if a no-deal Brexit is half as bad as the doomsayers think that's going to be a globally seismic event which is going to make everyone hurt. The EU needs to do as much as possible to avoid a no-deal Brexit. Which maybe also means sweetening the pot a little bit, so that the May plan is sufficiently changed to allow a 4th vote and it's good enough for enough Brexit-curious remainers to make up the narrowing difference.

[Heartofice]

9 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Except of course that one time when you were asked about it, and you decided to join.

Oh when we voted to join the EEC? A largely economic union of 6 other countries? Did we also vote for all the other changes that have happened since that time? Maastricht etc?

and the ‘oh well everything else is rubbish so why are you complaining’ argument for staying in is hardly inspiring.

[Heartofice]

Mervyn Kings latest comments suggest that with adequate preparation the UK could have done fine with no deal, but that the government has consciously not made preparations in the belief that they won’t need to, Hammond holding that cash back.

Not only does that decision by Hammond like silly now, but like everything around no deal we shot our own negotiating position in the foot from day one. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

6 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I'm not sure about all the people saying the EU is going to get all pissy with the UK and tell it to bugger of and live or die with a no-deal Brexit. The UK will of course be hit hardest by a no-deal Brexit. But since Britain is one of the biggest and most important economies in the world, if a no-deal Brexit is half as bad as the doomsayers think that's going to be a globally seismic event which is going to make everyone hurt. The EU needs to do as much as possible to avoid a no-deal Brexit. Which maybe also means sweetening the pot a little bit, so that the May plan is sufficiently changed to allow a 4th vote and it's good enough for enough Brexit-curious remainers to make up the narrowing difference. 

Yes, no-deal is not a desirable outcome for the EU either. However, there won't be anymore pot sweetening. May will ask for the long extension at the next summit meeting on the 10th of April. If she doesn't, then it's no deal. I mean, this British psycho drama has kept the EU busy and bound resources for two years. The last EU summit was intended to discuess unimportant stuff like how to deal with China in the future, particular with taking the US foreign policies into account. And instead, the EU leaders were forced to talk about Brexit for 10 hours again. So patience among some member states is growing incredibly thin (France in particular comes to mind).

The writing is on the wall for that. If the ERG were convinced she would go down the no-deal line, they would not have voted for the WA. The remainers, second referendum, CU enthusiasts have called her bluff.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Just now, Heartofice said:

Mervyn Kings latest comments suggest that with adequate preparation the UK could have done fine with no deal, but that the government has consciously not made preparations in the belief that they won’t need to, Hammond holding that cash back. 

Not only does that decision by Hammond like silly now, but like everything around no deal we shot our own negotiating position in the foot from day one. 

For a moment I was tempted to give a serious response to that. But on a second thought.

[Spockydog]

Dominic Grieve facing deselection after losing a vote of confidence at his constituency. Looks like the Tiggers might have found their PM.

 

 

[The Marquis de Leech]

1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Except of course that one time when you were asked about it, and you decided to join.

The EEC membership was sold as a free-trade zone*. The EU is a bit more than that now. 

*Opposition to membership was largely a left-wing thing. 

[The Marquis de Leech]

1 hour ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

For a moment I was tempted to give a serious response to that. But on a second thought.

Well, here's the article:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/29/uk-should-leave-eu-with-no-deal-says-former-bank-of-england-governor

It's a misleading title, of course, since there is a significant difference between a No Deal crash-out, and a Managed No Deal - it's the latter that King is suggesting.

(Of course, King's proposed delay to prepare wouldn't fly with Parliament, so it's a non-starter now. Things might have been different if the preparations had commenced right after the Referendum).

[A Horse Named Stranger]

1 hour ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

Well, here's the article:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/29/uk-should-leave-eu-with-no-deal-says-former-bank-of-england-governor

It's a misleading title, of course, since there is a significant difference between a No Deal crash-out, and a Managed No Deal - it's the latter that King is suggesting.

(Of course, King's proposed delay to prepare wouldn't fly with Parliament, so it's a non-starter now. Things might have been different if the preparations had commenced right after the Referendum).

Old Article 1. Old Article 2.

[The Marquis de Leech]

5 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Old Article 1. Old Article 2.

Both articles refer to the crash-out scenario. Which is not what King is suggesting.

(I thought the first one, referencing meat products was decidedly cute, considering that my country was basically set up to provide meat for Britain, and somehow still manages to sell agricultural produce to the EU in the face of tariffs, even without subsidies. No doubt with a zero tariff barrier we could send more lamb and beef to Britain. The key point being preparation).