Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Spockydog

UK Politics: What Goes DUP Must Come Down

Recommended Posts

So have MPs decided which solution can be ignored tomorrow by May and her gang of mummers?

I mean, votes taken on April fools day don't count anyway, right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

ah, bloody GMT. It's 10:30pm - don't worry I won't spoil anything (that's how time(zones) work(s), isn't it?)

 

We changed to British Summer Time this sunday.  Its only 9:30pm here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Pebble said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

We changed to British Summer Time this sunday.  Its only 9:30pm here

 

Like I said, you are behind an hour. CET (well, cet summer time since saturday night/sunday morning), anyway, always one hour ahead of you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Like I said, you are behind an hour. CET (well, cet summer time since saturday night/sunday morning), anyway, always one hour ahead of you.

well maybe if we do end up leaving on no deal, then for half a year our Time will be the same as your time, since your gonna stop changing times 2 a year.

 

Take that EU.  You can't dictated to us what time our Blue passports work on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Funny thing is, Norway and Iceland have repeatedly said they don't like the UK joining their club.

And even if you convince them otherwise, it will take quite a bit for the legal framework to be there.

Do they actually get a say in the matter? I would think the EU is free to negotiate its relationship with any nation and only the EU members get a say in the nature of that relationship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

C   273 yes    276  No

D  261 Yes    282   No

E   280 yes    292  No

G  111  yes    292  No

 

 

 

So again everything is No

 

Roll on MV4

 

Edited by Pebble

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The big difference is that the stupid Boles plan came back with a bang, although it is still behind the CU and the third referendum. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, Boles has now apparently fucked off. Well. I have to say I am in favour in principle of compromise wrt Brexit and he was opposed to the headbangers but his actual proposed compromise was total crap. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just 37 Tory MPs voted for the customs union and 33 for Nick Boles’ Common Market 2.0. So even if the HoC does eventually find in favour of one we might head to a general election instead. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So UK is still headed for No Deal right now, correct? More votes can be held I assume, but I don’t see how that’ll help at this point. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Ghjhero said:

So UK is still headed for No Deal right now, correct? More votes can be held I assume, but I don’t see how that’ll help at this point. 

No, I think May's Deal, Extension or Revocation are all more likely. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Greg Hands, who is arguing for May's agreement (it's unclear why), gave up this amazing quote: "It you don't have a seat at the table, you're likely to be on the menu." Which sounds great but it does seem to be arguing in favour of Remain.

Ken Clarke seemed to have a grand time. The DUP's Sammy Wilson (not the brightest spark in an admittedly damp box), tried to argue that the customs union still violates the DUP's red lines, which led to the fantastic sight of Clarke explaining to a DUP MP what the DUP's own red lines are, and the customs union doesn't cross them because all of the UK and all of the EU are in alignment so ergo the problems the DUP had with the backstop don't even exist. Wilson seemed left spluttering for some kind of coherent reply.

Later on, Clarke drops the truth bomb: "I've got a damn sight nearer a majority in this House than anyone else has so far. Peace out, motherfuckers, I'm going for a beer. See you later in the week when we can fuck this right up again." I may have made some of that up, but that was his general tone.

Quote

So UK is still headed for No Deal right now, correct? More votes can be held I assume, but I don’t see how that’ll help at this point. 

 
 

Not really. What these votes have done is really collapse things down to two options: a customs union or putting May's deal to a public vote versus Remain. A customs union got close to passing (failing by just 3 votes) but the public vote option got the higher number of overall votes.

Entertainingly, both options seem to violate May's red lines, so either of them getting support in a final vote later in the week could trigger a general election (on the basis that the government cannot violate its own manifesto), which May might also fail to get support for (since she needs about 120 Tory MPs to support her, which right now would be turkeys voting for Christmas; Labour is - somehow - starting to surge ahead in the polls). If that then happens, I don't think anyone knows what will happen. May will quit - she will quite literally having nothing else to do - and her successor would then have to, I don't know, sit in an office screaming silently into the void. I mean, revoking Article 50 is the only thing they can do unilaterally but fuck knows what would happen then. The Conservative Party self-destructing into 2 or 3 lesser parties and becoming unelectable for the next five generations would be nice, but probably too much to hope for at this point.

Edited by Werthead

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Greg Hands, who is arguing for May's agreement (it's unclear why), gave up this amazing quote: "It you don't have a seat at the table, you're likely to be on the menu." Which sounds great but it does seem to be arguing in favour of Remain.

Ken Clarke seemed to have a grand time. The DUP's Sammy Wilson (not the brightest spark in an admittedly damp box), tried to argue that the customs union still violates the DUP's red lines, which led to the fantastic sight of Clarke explaining to a DUP MP what the DUP's own red lines are, and the customers union doesn't cross them because all of the UK and all of the EU are in alignment so ergo the problems the DUP had with the backstop don't even exist. Wilson seemed left spluttering for some kind of coherent reply.

Later on, Clarke drops the truth bomb: "I've got a damn sight nearer a majority in this House than anyone else has so far. Peace out, motherfuckers, I'm going for a beer. See you later in the week when we can fuck this right up again." I may have made some of that up, but that was his general tone.

 
 

Not really. What these votes have done is really collapse things down to two options: a customs union or putting May's deal to a public vote versus Remain. A customs union got close to passing (failing by just 3 votes) but the public vote option got the higher number of overall votes.

Entertainingly, both options seem to violate May's red lines, so either of them getting support in a final vote later in the week could trigger a general election (on the basis that the government cannot violate its own manifesto), which May might also fail to get support for (since she needs about 120 Tory MPs to support her, which right now would be turkeys voting for Christmas; Labour is - somehow - starting to surge ahead in the polls). If that then happens, I don't think anyone knows what will happen. May will quit - she will quite literally having nothing else to do - and her successor would then have to, I don't know, sit in an office screaming silently into the void. I mean, revoking Article 50 is the only thing they can do unilaterally but fuck knows what would happen then. The Conservative Party self-destructing into 2 or 3 lesser parties and becoming unelectable for the next five generations would be nice, but probably too much to hope for at this point.

Thanks for the clarification! The Customs Union would certainly get my vote, although I’m not well read on what exactly May’s deal entails. 

What were May’s red lines? Is that to do with the EP elections coming up or something else entirely?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Ghjhero said:

Thanks for the clarification! The Customs Union would certainly get my vote, although I’m not well read on what exactly May’s deal entails. 

What were May’s red lines? Is that to do with the EP elections coming up or something else entirely?

May is dead-set against a third referendum under all circumstances. She is also against anything that is "against the spirit of Brexit" and believes that a customs union is not really Brexit at all since it leaves us tied to EU rules and regulations in certain areas. So either of those (or both!) getting passed would cause her a huge crisis (another one!).

Thanks to the Fixed Term Parliament Act, Theresa May can't actually trigger a general election - which is what you'd normally do if a vote in Parliament threatened to be passed against the government's wishes - by the old mechanism of making it a de facto no confidence vote. So she has to either get 120-odd Tory MPs to vote in favour of a general election (ten more if the DUP vote against the motion, which I assume they would, as they're risking at least a few of their own seats given their total fuck-up handling of Brexit at home) where many of their own seats are at risk, or she'd have to get some Tory MPs to support a Labour vote of no confidence in the government and then vote herself out of a job, which frankly would be the most surreal thing to happen so far.

She can also just resign, but I can't see a single one of the prospective replacements doing anything other than being even more intransigent, so even less will get done. They can try to crash us out without a deal, but Parliament seems dead-set against that as well.

We're basically at the political equivalent of that scene where Austin Powers is doing a 947-point turn to get a fork lift truck turned around in a corridor, only with much less hope of a successful outcome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Neither the CU, nor a 2nd referendum are close to a majority.  On a whipped vote, the majorities against both are over 60.

So, the three options remain what they have been for months.  Pass the WA, a No Deal Brexit, or passing a VONC in the government to instal a government that will revoke A50.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Common Market 2 and Customs Union would both have won if the Lib Dems and TIG had backed them.  They're the mirror image of people like Francois and Baker.

24 Labour MP's opposed a second referendum, as did 4 ex-Labour independents.  15 Conservatives supported it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Ghjhero said:

So UK is still headed for No Deal right now, correct? 

Not a chance. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×