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UK Politics: What Goes DUP Must Come Down

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6 minutes ago, Mosi Mynn said:

That he's done a Trump and made up the numbers at the march is maybe an issue.

https://fullfact.org/europe/peoples-vote-march-count/

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However experts in crowd estimation put the number at between 312,000 and 400,000.


The guy is just playing the game, he doesn't want the UK to leave, it's bad for the EU if it does. He has been able to position himself as the good guy in much of this debacle, which is pretty sad really, but we've made it so easy for the EU to look like the sensible ones. Clearly he sees the extension as merely a precursor to Brexit being cancelled. 
 

Edited by Heartofice

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A bit more detail on the options to be put to MPs:

 

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14 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

That he's done a Trump and made up the numbers at the march is maybe an issue.

https://fullfact.org/europe/peoples-vote-march-count/


The guy is just playing the game, he doesn't want the UK to leave, it's bad for the EU if it does. He has been able to position himself as the good guy in much of this debacle, which is pretty sad really, but we've made it so easy for the EU to look like the sensible ones. Clearly he sees the extension as merely a precursor to Brexit being cancelled. 
 

It's a calculated risk.  

We're still EU citizens and it's part of his job to look out of EU citizens.  He's elevating the increasingly loud UK public remain voice, which he wouldn't do if that voice was represented in our own Parliament.  On the downside, it could be seen as meddling in domestic politics - but in this case he could argue it's an EU issue as well.

I like the fact he's not afraid to do this.  He has come across as eminently reasonable to Remainers - but some of his comments have inflamed some Brexiteers and politicians.  I bet they'll love this too!

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Terrible time to release 'speed limiting in new cars news'.  EU getting involved in our business, especially our cars will not do.  You just know the top gear crowd is 95% brexiteers.

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1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

Terrible time to release 'speed limiting in new cars news'.  EU getting involved in our business, especially our cars will not do.  You just know the top gear crowd is 95% brexiteers.

So for how long do you suggest the EU suspend any meaningful discussion of anything that could offend any special snowflake in the UK?

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3 hours ago, mormont said:

I think the Speaker will be under pressure to include the Malthouse A 'compromise' option, despite the fact that if MPs vote for it you will be able to hear Michel Barnier screaming 'this fucking bullshit AGAIN?!?!' from clear across the Channel. 

Is there any way to actually pressure Bercow though? I thought he'd already announced a while ago that he'd be stepping down later this year; so isn't he free to basically do whatever he wants, so long as he's confident there wouldn't be a majority to vote to overrule him?

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17 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

So for how long do you suggest the EU suspend any meaningful discussion of anything that could offend any special snowflake in the UK?

The UK are voluntarily participating in this despite Brexit. Not that this has stopped the Daily Express: 'MEDDLING EU IS STILL TELLING US WHAT TO DO' is today's headline. Quality, but not as good as yesterday's bout of foot-stamping tantrum: 'THEY'VE NOW STOLEN WHAT'S LEFT OF BREXIT'. As if Brexit was a packet of biscuits. 

8 minutes ago, Fez said:

Is there any way to actually pressure Bercow though? I thought he'd already announced a while ago that he'd be stepping down later this year; so isn't he free to basically do whatever he wants, so long as he's confident there wouldn't be a majority to vote to overrule him?

I mean, the Tories all hate him anyway, so it's not easy for them. But unless he's giving up on being neutral, they can pressure him to be 'even-handed'. 

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13 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

He’s a world class troll, except he uses his powers for good.

Matter of opinion.. but sure.

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3 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Matter of opinion.. but sure.

This is Brexit:

Friends don’t let friends Brexit, especially without a deal in place….

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5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

This is Brexit:

Friends don’t let friends Brexit, especially without a deal in place….

In that scenario, Tusk is the drug dealer, clearly doesn't want his customer blowing his own face off.. bad for business.

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15 hours ago, Werthead said:

The EU has now moved TO TAKE CONTROL OF TIME ITSELF.

 

Parliament voting for things that directly contradicted the governing party's manifesto (or a coalition agreement thrashed out as a compromise between two parties' manifestos, a la the LibDem-Tory coalition) would certainly create a constitutional crisis and I think would make the government want to trigger a general election, as by definition the governing party would no longer be able to fulfil its mandate (as slim as it is in this case).

The government refusing to follow Parliament's majority vote would also spark a constitutional crisis.

What that means no-one knows. We've never been in this situation before.

Hey you didn't veto the ascension of Gallifrey. Now you gotta deal with EU commisoner Rassilion.

Anyway, so much huff and puff about the EU wanting to end the the annual summer-winter time switches. I mean, the EU actually asked its citizens the (rather large) majority of people who participated said get rid off that shit.

 

Having said that. Of course she will ignore it and happily spark a constitutional crisis, Tories über alles. So the party is also above parliament.

4 hours ago, lacuna said:

Still not sure why you guys should get a "plus" TBQH. 

If anything, quitters should get a minus. 

Don't worry. As Ivan Rogers has put it so nicely, beware all pluses. As what the EU and what UK understand as "plus" will probably differ quite a bit. So any further bonus on a Norway style deal will come with a price tag, if there are any concessions towards a "plus" as the UK understands it at all.

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11 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

In that scenario, Tusk is the drug dealer, clearly doesn't want his customer blowing his own face off.. bad for business.

No, David Cameron is. He got the U.K. high.

Then the U.K. voted for something incredibly stupid, i.e. put the gun in its mouth.

Now May and the harebrained leave MPs are trying to pull the trigger as Tusk screams “Nooooooo.”

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My twat John Barron MP's motion has been selected and he's opening with eh first statements.   exit with No deal on the 12.   

 

I frigging hate this bastard.

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The guy is just playing the game, he doesn't want the UK to leave, it's bad for the EU if it does. He has been able to position himself as the good guy in much of this debacle, which is pretty sad really, but we've made it so easy for the EU to look like the sensible ones. Clearly he sees the extension as merely a precursor to Brexit being cancelled. 

He's just looking at the polls, showing that Remain is now more firmly ahead then it's been for a while among the people who voted in the previous referendum, and significantly ahead for those who didn't but who would vote in a third referendum now they know more clearly the situation (the missing 13 million everyone kind of forgets about).

Of course, that is only convincing if turnout for Ref3 is significantly higher than the last one. There would be some tail-off from people so sick of the whole thing they'd refuse to vote again.

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Terrible time to release 'speed limiting in new cars news'.  EU getting involved in our business, especially our cars will not do.  You just know the top gear crowd is 95% brexiteers.

I'm not so sure on that. Clarkson is an ardent Remainer and I think a lot of the same crowd would follow his lead, especially the types who like being able to travel to Europe unimpeded, especially for racing events. A lot of the car companies and race event organisers (in multiple disciplines, from F1 on down) are adamantly anti-Brexit.

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Can British citizens who have lived abroad for 15 years vote on anything?

Was it the Tory government at the time that laid down arbitrary voting rules, or is it a legal thing?

 

The problem with this logic is that the British citizens who've lived abroad for 15 years are directly impacted by the situation, far more than most, so yes, they should definitely get a vote. My mother only just qualified, for example, but she didn't get her postal ballot in time. In fact, even among British expats living in Europe for under 15 years, the estimate is that about a million people didn't receive their documentation in time to vote, so were effectively shut out of the process.

Of course, if your logic is that British citizens shouldn't be able to vote since they've been out of the country for x number of years, then the same corresponding logic is that EU citizens who have been in Britain for x number of years or more (say, 5?) should get a vote because they've been here, living by UK laws and paying into the UK tax and benefits system for that time.

This was really all Cameron's fault. If he'd allowed more time for UK expats to vote and for 16-17 year olds to vote (following the precedent established in the Scottish referendum which also happened under his watch), Remain would have probably clinched it (just about) and we'd currently be debating something else, like the Parallel Timeline Tory Government's plan to privatise oxygen.

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11 minutes ago, Werthead said:

The problem with this logic is that the British citizens who've lived abroad for 15 years are directly impacted by the situation, far more than most, so yes, they should definitely get a vote. My mother only just qualified, for example, but she didn't get her postal ballot in time. In fact, even among British expats living in Europe for under 15 years, the estimate is that about a million people didn't receive their documentation in time to vote, so were effectively shut out of the process.

Of course, if your logic is that British citizens shouldn't be able to vote since they've been out of the country for x number of years, then the same corresponding logic is that EU citizens who have been in Britain for x number of years or more (say, 5?) should get a vote because they've been here, living by UK laws and paying into the UK tax and benefits system for that time.

This was really all Cameron's fault. If he'd allowed more time for UK expats to vote and for 16-17 year olds to vote (following the precedent established in the Scottish referendum which also happened under his watch), Remain would have probably clinched it (just about) and we'd currently be debating something else, like the Parallel Timeline Tory Government's plan to privatise oxygen.

Yeah Cameron completely ballsed this up. 

The campaign to privatise oxygen would have been hijacked by Farage who would still be bleating that the 48% leave vote should definitely be listened to.  

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Bercow has ruled she cannot have a third vote. Epic stuff ahead. 

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The ERG has taken to calling its big hitters as the "Grand Wizards" and the Today programme started using that terminology today without, for some reason, mentioning that it's a reference to the Klu Klux Klan.

The BBC's journalism has fallen so far down the gutter now that it's unbelievable.

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30 minutes ago, Werthead said:

The ERG has taken to calling its big hitters as the "Grand Wizards" and the Today programme started using that terminology today without, for some reason, mentioning that it's a reference to the Klu Klux Klan.

The BBC's journalism has fallen so far down the gutter now that it's unbelievable.

Maybe if they thought they had been named after said KKK rather than by coincidence  they would have thought it was relevant 

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So May would be stepping down, once her deal is passed.

Resse-Smug will support if the DUP does - which probably means no.

I don't think there's a snowball chance in hell the DUP will back it. I mean it's a clash of reasons here.

Raison d'etat (to keep a more or rather less functional goverment alive) versus their Raison d'etre (NI not to be treated differently than mainland Britain). Under normal circumstances, you'd expect their raison d'etre to prevail in that contest 10/10.

Popcorn time. :)

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