Dwarfs

[Falconer]

Hi, all! First (substantive) post. I haven’t been able to craft a well-thought theory like others I have seen here, but, this has been needling at me, and it’s all I’ve got, so, I thought I’d kick off a conversation. If, indeed, this isn’t already old hat.

Dwarfs in ASoIaF are not like Tolkien’s Dwarves. They’re humans with dwarfism. Right? On the other hand, ASoIaF is fantasy, so even things which exist in the real world with non-fantastic explanations can take on fantastic meanings in ASoIaF.

Well, what if we start with the assumption that a Tolkienesque Dwarven race exists in the story, and then go looking for them?

There are grumkins. Snarks and grumkins, but, we know too little about snarks, so, let’s stick with grumkins. Tyrion looks rather like a grumkin, as he and Jon agree in AGoT. I guess grumkins are rumored to live beyond the Wall, but, it seems to me to be southerners who always talk about them, and both Tyrion and the Ghost of High Heart are at home in the south. Grumkins are stated in ASoS to craft magical objects, which is Dwarves’ main activity in Tolkien.

The Ghost of High Heart has white skin and red eyes. Due to her supernatural appearance and abilities, the reader is given to assume that she is a child of the forest, since this is before we learn what the CotF have completely different colorations. Could she be a grumkin?

Then there’s Casterly Rock. A giant mountain filled with tunnels and mines and dungeons and mines. It’s basically the Moria of Westeros. Were the Casterlys dwarfs (grumkins)?

I think we’re meant to contemplate Umbers having giants’ blood; Crannogmen having CotF blood; Starks or Boltons having Others’ blood; Mormonts and Tormund bedding with bears (cf. Tolkien’s Beorn, berserkers); and the “inhuman” beauty and “godlike” powers of the Valryian Dragonlords (cf. Feist’s Valheru).

So, are we meant to make of the Lannisters that they are the Blood of the Grumkin (perhaps inherited from their Casterly side)? Tyrion is the only short one in the story, but what about Tywin’s gold and green eyes (though that would be more like CotF than the GoHH)? The fact that most Lannisters are either grumpy or snarky?

[Mindrot]

I don't really have much to add to this except to point out that in the beginning of AGOT, Tyrion is shown doing a weird tumble half-flip thing off of a Gargoyle (or pillar, some piece of a building).  I think George was going to make him a bit more of "fantasy" style dwarf, in the beginning but then fell in love with his wit and intellect?  Not sure but it always struck me as strange when we first meet Tyrion he does this strange acrobatic move.

 

[Vaith]

1 hour ago, Falconer said:

The Ghost of High Heart has white skin and red eyes. Due to her supernatural appearance and abilities, the reader is given to assume that she is a child of the forest, since this is before we learn what the CotF have completely different colorations. Could she be a grumkin?

Why can't children of the forest have differing colouring between members? A Summer Islander and a Westerosi person aren't different species. Bran's chapters also say that red eyes are a sign that the child of the forest is a greenseer, which the Ghost of High Heart almost certainly is. 

1 hour ago, Falconer said:

Mormonts and Tormund bedding with bears (cf. Tolkien’s Beorn, berserkers)

Or Alysane and Tormund could have been joking around. 

2 minutes ago, Mindrot said:

I don't really have much to add to this except to point out that in the beginning of AGOT, Tyrion is shown doing a weird tumble half-flip thing off of a Gargoyle (or pillar, some piece of a building).  I think George was going to make him a bit more of "fantasy" style dwarf, in the beginning but then fell in love with his wit and intellect?  Not sure but it always struck me as strange when we first meet Tyrion he does this strange acrobatic move.

GRRM has said somewhere (I think) that the acrobatics was ditched after it was pointed out that what he was doing in the earlier books wouldn't be that feasible for actual people with dwarfism; it's more of him not knowing this was possible rather than rewriting the concept.

The children of the forest themselves are supposed to be unique, in some way. Yes, there are some bits of wood elf clichés here and there, but the other intelligent races are not supposed to be Tolkienesque analogies exactly.

[Seams]

Interesting questions.

I suspect Tyrion being a dwarf is related to the author's concept of "smallfolk," the common people whose crops are ruined by war, daughters stolen, sons drafted as bannermen, houses burned down, savings taken. What little we know about them is all seen from the point of view of various noble narrators but people like Arya and Tyrion come in closer contact with them than some of the other POVs.

GRRM also uses the idea of "monster" children in a way that is not intended to be insulting to any group: Joffrey was a monster, Dany's baby was a monster, Starks are wargs, Gilly's baby is nicknamed Monster. The giants beyond the Wall are monsters and, in keeping with that, dwarfs are also monsters. (Tyrion mentions as one point that he was born with a tail, which was removed. This may have been a reinforcing detail to emphasize the notion of a monster baby.)

Having said all that, I think the author does want us to make a connection between the Children of the Forest and little people such as Tyrion and Penny. I don't know that he wants us to infer that Tyrion has (or all Lannisters have) a CotF ancestor; just that there is symbolism around "small," and the short-in-stature characters are all part of that motif.

It is interesting to think whether Tyrion has ever "magicked up a sword," as Jeor Mormont describes grumkins being able to do. He did handle Oathkeeper (and Widow's Wail?) while Tobho Mott was in the process of finishing them for Tywin. I don't think Tyrion has ever swapped babies in their cradles - although Jon Snow did so with Gilly and Dalla's babies. Grumkins can apparently also grant wishes. Can't think of a time Tyrion has done that, unless we count signing all those IOUs for the Second Sons. He would have to deliver payment for all of those wishes to come true.

When I took a look at Grumkins a few years ago, I found that the characters who think of them tend to be from the North, with the exception of Tyrion. But that may be because the Stark family has so many POV characters, and their family has heard of grumkins from Old Nan. But Tyrion is by far the most interested in grumkins, based on the number of times he mentions them.

[LynnS]

The only elaboration that I have seen on a nature of grumkin comes from Arya in relation to Jaqen H'gar:

 

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A Clash of Kings - Arya IX

She had been avoiding the Lorathi since Weese's death. Chiswyck had been easy, anyone could push a man off the wallwalk, but Weese had raised that ugly spotted dog from a pup, and only some dark magic could have turned the animal against him. Yoren found

Jaqen still owed her one death. In Old Nan's stories about men who were given magic wishes by a grumkin, you had to be especially careful with the third wish, because it was the last. Chiswyck and Weese hadn't been very important. The last death has to count, Arya told herself every night when she whispered her names. But now she wondered if that was truly the reason she had hesitated. So long as she could kill with a whisper, Arya need not be afraid of anyone . . . but once she used up the last death, she would only be a mouse again.

 

It calls to mind the contemporary story of the Monkey's Paw.

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"The Monkey's Paw" is a supernatural short story by author W. W. Jacobs first published in England in the collection The Lady of the Barge in 1902. In the story, three wishes are granted to the owner of the monkey's paw, but the wishes come with an enormous price for interfering with fate.

Quote

 

The short story involves Mr. and Mrs. White and their adult son, Herbert. Sergeant-Major Morris, a friend who served with the British Army in India, introduces them to a mummified monkey's paw. An old fakir placed a spell on the paw, so that it would grant three wishes. The wishes are granted but always with hellish consequences as punishment for tampering with fate. Morris, having had a horrific experience using the paw, throws the monkey's paw into the fire but Mr. White retrieves it. Before leaving, Morris warns Mr. White that if he does use the paw, then it will be on his own head.

At Herbert's suggestion, Mr. White flippantly wishes for £200, which will enable him to make the final mortgage payment for his house, even though he believes he has everything he wants. The next day his son Herbert leaves for work at a local factory. Later that day, word comes to the White home that Herbert has been killed in a terrible machinery accident. Although the employer denies responsibility for the incident, the firm has decided to make a goodwill payment to the family of the deceased. The payment, of £200, exactly matches the amount Herbert suggested his father should wish for.

Ten days after their son's death and a week after the funeral, Mrs. White, mad with grief, insists that her husband use the paw to wish Herbert back to life. Reluctantly he does so, despite a premonition of summoning his son's mutilated and decomposing body. An hour or so later—the cemetery being two miles away—there is a knock at the door. As Mrs. White fumbles at the locks in a desperate attempt to open the door, Mr. White, terrified of "the thing outside", retrieves the paw and makes his third wish. The knocking suddenly stops. Mrs. White opens the door to find no one is there. She wails in disappointment and misery.

 

So on third wish, no one is there.  The quintessential identify of the Faceless Men as Noboody or No One.  Sorry this doesn't add to your question concerning dwarves.

[The Mother of The Others]

50 minutes ago, Vaith said:

Or Alysane and Tormund could have been joking around.

Uhhhhh,  if there's something to the citadel's ancient Sphinx and its secrets, these ruling families of westeros may be linked for real to the totem spirits of their animal mascots.  So in that sense Mormonts could possess the ferocity of the bear without any need for dark family secrets about actually interhumping with bears.  Which would be silly.  And ineffective.  And ... wrong?  And so on.   I like the stories about Targ children with tails, though.  That could come from a breaking down of whatever binding spell fused their family to the totem spirit of the dragon long ago.  Or the dragon was too potent a creature for the binding spells to contain, ultimately?  Hence Valyria's fate.

 

A quick shout out to the dwarven guys seen prowling the Undying Ones campus.  (!)     #therealGrumpkins

 

Lannisters are snarky.   Verbally and in terms of acting like monsters.    Funny how you get hellfire when you dig in Essos but in Westeros you get the leprechauns' pot of gold.   The luck of the... Lann.   Casterly is foreseen as a showdown location under the earth, too.  Sneaking in of the dwarf thru the sewers.  Whatnot.

[kissdbyfire]

1 hour ago, Vaith said:

Or Alysane and Tormund could have been joking around. 

Ugh, they’re not Targaryens! Alysane is Maege and Tormund’s daughter. It is known. 

[Falconer]

Not to get too deep down that rabbit hole (whether people in the story really do the nasty with bears), my point is that GRRM wanted us to at least have the image in our heads.