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TIAMAT'S WRATH - Book 8 of Expanse (SPOILERS)


KalVsWade
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On 4/24/2019 at 7:13 PM, C.T. Phipps said:

I'm of the mind Duarte is completely brain dead.

They made a lot of Warhammer 40K allusions with the Laconians.

The Laconians setting up Duarte as a figurehead while he's permanently out of it fits with them perfectly.

The only thing is he appears to be somewhat aware. (SPOILER COMING)

When Teresa tells him that Cortazar (sorry forgot spelling) wants to kill her, awhile later her disembodies him quite specifically (there is some mysterious thumping behind closed doors when he is with his aide, Keller so maybe not so specifically. Pretty sure though that Teresa reached him which means that on some level he is in there beneath the protomolecule modifications to his brain/body.

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Very late to the party, as I just finished TW, and I liked it a lot, probably even second best in the series for me, after Nemesis Games. 

I had just a few minor doubts, one of which is: how come the alien orbital shipyards that produce basically indestructible ships and antimatter, are so vulnerable themselves, that a small bunch of old-fashioned ships with just Sol based weapons are able to destroy them, while on Ilus anything made by protomolecule makers seemed pretty indestructible. 

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4 minutes ago, 3CityApache said:

Very late to the party, as I just finished TW, and I liked it a lot, probably even second best in the series for me, after Nemesis Games. 

I had just a few minor doubts, one of which is: how come the alien orbital shipyards that produce basically indestructible ships and antimatter, are so vulnerable themselves, that a small bunch of old-fashioned ships with just Sol based weapons are able to destroy them, while on Ilus anything made by protomolecule makers seemed pretty indestructible. 

The only near-impossible to destroy ships were the Magnetar-class battleships. The Tempest was destroyed by Bobbie's anti-matter explosion, and the other was taken out with everything else in the slow zone, if I remember correctly.

The smaller destroyer type ships that the Laconians built can be destroyed if enough firepower is brought to bear against them.

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@Corvinus85Yes, I know. But if the shipyard is able to make an almost indestructible Magnatar class ship, why is it so easy to destroy the shipyard itself? Why doesn't it use the same repearing itself materials as the ships it builds? All it took was just one terpedo or even a cannon shot each. 

Edited by 3CityApache
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2 minutes ago, 3CityApache said:

@Corvinus85Yes, I know. But if the shipyard is able to make an almost indestructible Magnatar class ship, why is it so easy to destroy to shipyard itself? Why doesn't it use the same repearing itself materials as the ships it builds? 

Presumably building an entire shipyard in that way would be cost or resource prohibitive for little purpose?  Weapons of war are made to be a lot sturdier than weapons factories are. 

I mean, an Abrams tank would be virtually indestructible to WW1 weapons (barring a very lucky hit from heavy artillery), but I've no doubt WW1 artillery and tanks could destroy the Abrams tank factory without difficulty. 

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7 minutes ago, 3CityApache said:

@Corvinus85Yes, I know. But if the shipyard is able to make an almost indestructible Magnatar class ship, why is it so easy to destroy the shipyard itself? Why doesn't it use the same repearing itself materials as the ships it builds? All it took was just one terpedo or even a cannon shot each. 

A missile that would bounce off a modern tank would probably go straight through the wall of a modern tank factory.

Edit: ninja'd with the exact same analogy!

Edited by Liffguard
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I don't remember if this happens in Cibola Burn, but in the show they destroy that drill on Ilus with one of Roci's torpedoes. So the machinery and structures weren't indestructible, just had excellent anti wear and tear features. 

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Ultimately the shipyards probably weren't specifically about building super indestructible things per se, just something that would be able to build spaceships with protomolecule tech. There's almost no sign of the p's building any kind of actual weapons in the entire series, and the closest is the Tecoma system. There's very little sign that they even had a concept of realspace warfare in any way. 

So why would they build a shipyard that was indestructible? What would be attacking it? The only thing they probably would care about is dealing with asteroids or something like that, and given Tecoma system they have the ability to basically sterilize a system of that sort of thing anyway. I would more question why they had a shipyard capable of building anything that humans could remotely use as vaguely useful as a far more implausible thing. Why would they bother with a shipyard or even creating anything in space when the protomolecule tech allows them to have an asteroid violate most laws of inertia? That seems weirder to me. 

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4 hours ago, Karlbear said:

Ultimately the shipyards probably weren't specifically about building super indestructible things per se, just something that would be able to build spaceships with protomolecule tech. There's almost no sign of the p's building any kind of actual weapons in the entire series, and the closest is the Tecoma system. There's very little sign that they even had a concept of realspace warfare in any way. 

So why would they build a shipyard that was indestructible? What would be attacking it? The only thing they probably would care about is dealing with asteroids or something like that, and given Tecoma system they have the ability to basically sterilize a system of that sort of thing anyway. I would more question why they had a shipyard capable of building anything that humans could remotely use as vaguely useful as a far more implausible thing. Why would they bother with a shipyard or even creating anything in space when the protomolecule tech allows them to have an asteroid violate most laws of inertia? That seems weirder to me. 

Because they're really humans from the future!!! :P

But seriously, who's to say the Romans were entirely united. Maybe they had their issues, too. Didn't the shipyard already have a partially complete Magnetar when Duarte settles his people there?

It's possible the shipyard could have been used for asteroid refitting, too. 

The moons around Ilus had some kind defensive system. 

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11 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

Because they're really humans from the future!!! :P

But seriously, who's to say the Romans were entirely united. Maybe they had their issues, too. Didn't the shipyard already have a partially complete Magnetar when Duarte settles his people there?

No, it had some kind of ship-like thing that was being built. 

But we don't have any signs of the Romans being divided in any way. That isn't to say that they weren't - but just that in 1300 systems the only thing resembling weaponry that wasn't created by us was Laconia.

11 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

It's possible the shipyard could have been used for asteroid refitting, too. 

The moons around Ilus had some kind defensive system. 

I don't think they were defensive against space ships though; they simply obliterated anything that entered the atmosphere and had something vaguely to do with stopping fusion from happening. The 'defensive' measures we've seen have all been in the slowspace station, and even those weren't weapons so much as declarations of physical law - with one exception. The slowspace station apparently has the ability to obliterate an entire system that it's connected to and cause that star to go nova, and that appears to be a kind of weapon, but it's also a weapon only in the most general sense - as far as we can tell it was  used to sterilize an infection. 

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A quick question, why is the protomolecule called "proto-"?  Its hideously complex so not like its a prototype molecule.  Is it branding from Protogen Corp?  An homage to protoculture from robotech/macross?  Was it just a conveniently simple but unused elsewhere name?  Is there something obvious I'm missing?  Ok that's several questions technically i guess.

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  • 3 months later...
On 4/11/2021 at 5:17 PM, DanielAbraham said:

 

“Protogen, Protomolecule,” Holden said.  “They had no idea what it does, but they slapped their label on it like they'd made it.  They found an alien weapon, and all they could think to do was brand it.”

-- Leviathan Wakes

It seems you and Ty may have been prophetic in your writing.  We may have discovered a couple of asteroids crawling with organic molecules floating around in the Belt:

https://futurism.com/the-byte/objects-complex-organic-matter-asteroid-belt?fbclid=IwAR0Ox1gXj2WdVQGWNNGkYalfDYe0lws1qOQOap567-VPO6jqcvCVc_raf4c

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