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Plain, Simple Tailor

How are they gonna get outta this one??

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Mooncalf said:

I think the only one who can get him out is Jeyne. She'd have to beg Stannis to spare him, and he might oblige, but Theon joining the watch if that happens. would fit with the last conversation him and Luwin had. probably gonna stop being a POV at that point and have less impact on the story just because there is no way to get his arc any better

Did we ever had a POV character that stopped beeing a POV after getting boring? The only reason a POV stopped was because of the death of a character

Edited by Karneol

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51 minutes ago, Makk said:

Robb seemed to think they would if he sent 20 men. The kingslayer should be worth more than 20.

That was back when Jon was new to the Nights Watch, and Jaime had two hands. Now Jon is the Lord Commander, and besides military tactics, Jaime is pretty much worthless now. 

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1 hour ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

That was back when Jon was new to the Nights Watch, and Jaime had two hands. Now Jon is the Lord Commander, and besides military tactics, Jaime is pretty much worthless now. 

1 hour ago, Karneol said:

The kingslayer with a right hand. Without it he would be probably another Sam (before his trip beyond the wall)

Also I would consider Robb not as a reliable source in some matters

 

Politically Jaime's birth carries much more value to the nights watch than hundreds of men. Functionally he would actually be better now than when he had two hands because he is a better person, but even without the readers knowledge, he would be fine as a steward or lord commander, just not a ranger or builder. The nightswatch also gain a king of the north who is sympathetic. Regardless I don't really see Catelyn as asking. The trade would be backed up by a large force and largely be made for legitimacy so no vows were broken (although I think Jaime will end up being hugely valuable as lord commander).

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Jaime/Brienne:  Jaime's body hasn't shown up yet, which suggests that they have some sort of plan that doesn't involve his immediate death.   My guess is a prisoner rescue.  The Freys have been ordered to send their prisoners to KL.  If Jaime shows up at the head of a column saying he was sent to take custody, it might just work.  

I do think that, in the long run,, Jaime's story may be almost over.  I wouldn't be surprised if he dies in the early going of TWOW.  Brienne's story has a ways to go, I think.

 

Arya:  I think Martin is setting up her departure from the FM.  I don't think it will happen immediately, although I would expect her to be on thin ice with the FM.  Eventually,they will figure out that she isn't really suitable for them, if they haven't already. 

At that point, they will probably push her out, if she doesn't ask to leave first  A conversation with Jeyne Poole could be the catalyst for this.  The attack on Jon, and the fact that Northmen are willing to fight, kill, and die for "Arya Stark" will likely be interesting items of information for her. 

I expect she will be allowed to leave, but with a requirement that she keep her mouth shut, and help them in the future if they need it.  A member of a Great House in Westeros could be a useful asset.

 

Theon:  Pretty sure his days are numbered.  I wouldn't be surprised if he is executed by Stannis.  Asha will probably try to  use his absence to reopen the Kingsmoot, especially if Euron has taken actions that make him unpopular.

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4 hours ago, Makk said:

It is supposed to be a decision she doesn't like, something that is very hard for her. That is what GRRM writes about. But there need to be not only compelling reasons why she wouldn't, but compelling reasons why she should. Would it be doing it for Jon or for Robb? Robb's last wish/order was that Jon would succeed him if anything should happen. There was a big deal made about this with a very powerfully written scene. Jon, Robb and Catelyn have always a fully fleshed out and complicated relationship, GRRM has put a lot of words and care into it. And now Robb was murdered. Does she really disrespect his last his last wish? I think not. And it is also logical if she wants to see the north recover as a kingdom as Robb was completely correct, the north needs a son of Eddard Stark to follow and rally around.

I'm just going to quote this one section so this doesn't get too long.

This would be a decision that would be very hard for Cat to do. I can't see Stoneheart having the capacity to do it. I really don't see the character of Stoneheart as being multi-dimensional as needed for this story. We've seen characters like the Mountain that have almost no depth, so it's not like George doesn't use this type of character to provide situations that the fleshed out characters have to respond to. Cat had multiple dimensions, but now she's been reduced to the worst of her. I think she is here to provide a counter-point to other characters. Like with Brienne. She created a situation that forced a very difficult choice for another character. I think she will do this again, but it'll be for Arya. I don't see her having anything to do with Jon as I can't see her doing the right thing. I would have trouble seeing Cat doing the right thing were she not Stoneheart, but I'm very biased against her, so that might just be me. 

You're right that I hadn't really considered the possibility that Cat was more than just her vengeance at the pain she got from losing her family and her life. I basically attributed her emotions as pain and loss with regards to her children, and hatred and vengeance towards those who were involved with the Red Wedding (or involved with those involved). While her giving up her unlife to save Jon would be a very full circle thing, it doesn't fit with what we know of Cat. She's never really been forgiving, and she's never been big on owning up to her mistakes. I don't see how that will suddenly change now that she's Stoneheart. I don't think it would fit her character to have this sort of redemption moment, when nothing she's done has put her on any sort of redemption path. 

Lastly, and correct me if I'm wrong, didn't Cat hate that Robb named Jon his heir? I thought she was strongly opposed to that. But I don't really remember that particular event that well. While honoring Robb is something she would be big on right now, I think her method of doing that is avenging his death and betrayal. Doing the one thing she strongly was against would show character growth, but I'm not sure that's what's on the cards for her story arc. Again, I believe she is going to be a catalyst for other character's growth, while not growing herself. 

And man do we need the next book. :P  

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On 3/28/2019 at 1:35 PM, Legitimate_Bastard said:

Sam is the only character I am semi-confident will survive the series.

Perhaps Tyrion and Bran.  It's difficult to say.  I may not continue reading should it come to that.  

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On 3/28/2019 at 8:20 PM, Makk said:

Now this does rely on Stoneheart still being Catelyn and not a 100% "embodiment of Cat's wrath and fury".

Im thinking Stoneheart is only a part of Cat. But instead of the fury part its the family part. Cat was always a Tully and a lot of her character builds around the Tully words. Stoneheart forgot honor and duty, this is hinted in these two chapters.

On 3/28/2019 at 8:20 PM, Makk said:

Robb's last wish/order was that Jon would succeed him if anything should happen.

Yes it would be her duty to get Jon crowned but since shes so focused on family - she never thought of Jon as son- she will not do it

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