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Plain, Simple Tailor

How are they gonna get outta this one??

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There are a lot of characters who, just based on their last ADWD chapter or their TWOW sample chapter, are not in a great position. In fact, I see no way out of their situations for quite a few of them. Here's who I'm worried about right now: 

  • Jaime and Brienne 

Boy, things are not looking good for Jaime and Brienne. Every way I've tried to work this one out, it just ends up with one of them dead. Cat's not really in a great mindset for negotiating right now, and even in the trial by combat option that people have suggested, one of them ends up dead. 

  • Theon 

Okay, spoilers for his TWOW sample chapter, so watch out. 

Spoiler

I mean, the poor guy's chained to a wall in Stannis' camp. Every single northern lord hates him, Stannis hates everyone, and he's insane right now. And even if he somehow survives, he's going to be back at Winterfell for the battle. Not looking great for Theon. 

However, I see a few paths out for Theon if he manages to survive Stannis' camp. 

  • Arya 

I don't think Arya's going to die (not until Book 7, anyway), but based on the TWOW Mercy chapter, this poor girl's path is just really dark. 

So, who else do you think it's looking bad for? And how are they going to get out of this pickle?? 

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1 hour ago, Plain, Simple Tailor said:

Cat's  Stoneheart’s not really in a great mindset for negotiating right now,

FTFY. :)

 

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Posted (edited)

Jaime and Brienne

If there is going to be a second Red Wedding, then to pull it off with maximum efficiency Stoneheart might need Jaime's participation. He and Brienne could possibly escape during the confusion. 

Arya

In her TWoW sample chapter, 

Spoiler

Arya kills Raff the Sweetling in revenge. She already got a bollocking from the Faceless Men for performing a personal kill, so she might decide "fuck it" and just head back off to Westeros shortly after that. I feel like she might hear from Justin Massey, or possibly even Jeyne Poole, that Jon Snow was killed at Castle Black, which might make her take her revenge game back to Westeros. 

Theon

Theon not being at the Kingsmoot could be a way for Euron to be de-crowned. Stannis might see him as an oportunity to bring the Iron Islands into the fold. Of course that would likely anger the Northmen, and if he had to pick one side to keep as allies, it would be the Northerners. 

 

Of course this is assuming that all these characters will survive TWoW. I could see one or two of them dying. 

Edited by HelenaExMachina

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Posted (edited)

Tyland Lannister is Jaime foreshadowing and so it is likely Jaime will be severely tortured by the Bwb/Stoneheart.

Jaime and Brienne get strung along as prisoners until Arya gets there to destroy Stoneheart. Probably Arya brings the wolf pack and turns the good half of the BWB on the bad. Gendry will do something particularly brave. Maybe Brienne and Jaime escape, maybe with Arya's and/or Gendry's help. Alternative possibility Jaime gets released back as part of a deal to bring the BWB back under the king's (or queen's?) peace.

Really though it makes more thematic sense for Jaime to be the one in the position of power with the ability to slaughter the BwB, and have every reason to hold a grudge, but instead choose to accept their surrender and bring them back to the peace without bloodshed. So I favour an escape, but not for a long while, GRRM has basically tucked them away whilst the dragons dance.

Theon, Bran is going to somehow in a supernatural manner communicate his wish that Theon not be executed and the northmen with Stannis will take it as the will of the Old Gods, and Theon will be spared.

Arya bleh. We don't even know if the FM are going to be angry at all. For all we know they could barely give a toss, and if they do, then Arya just runs away. And yeah she might not even bother going back there. All she needs is news of Sansa and she could be off.

Edited by chrisdaw

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Jaime 

I believe Catelyn will offer Jaime a chance to take the black as an exchange to free Jon Snow, her sons heir, from his vows.

Theon

I think Asha will end up using him as a puppet, making him King of the Iron Isles (claiming kingsmoot is invalid because he wasn't present) and ruling through him. I don't have a strong feeling of how he is going to escape from Stannis though. Perhaps the battle will proceed and buy him some time? Perhaps Asha has a plan to escape? Perhaps Bran or Bloodraven or the Three eyed crow will pull some mystic stuff. 

Spoiler
"Wise. I am sorry for your mother, but I do not spare the lives of turncloaks. This one, especially. He slew two sons of Eddard Stark. Every northman in my service would abandon me if I showed him any clemency. Your brother must die."
 
"Then do the deed yourself, Your Grace." The chill in Asha's voice made Theon shiver in his chains. "Take him out across the lake to the islet where the weirwood grows, and strike his head off with that sorcerous sword you bear. That is how Eddard Stark would have done it. Theon slew Lord Eddard's sons. Give him to Lord Eddard's gods. The old gods of the north. Give him to the tree."
 
And suddenly there came a wild thumping, as the maester's ravens hopped and flapped inside their cages, their black feathers flying as they beat against the bars with loud and raucous caws. "The tree," one squawked, "the tree, the tree," whilst the second screamed only, "Theon, Theon, Theon."

Arya

I find Arya the hardest to know where here story is going. I think news of Jon's "death" will pull her back to Westeros, but then what? I don't feel anything I have heard suggested fits particularly well.

 

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I admit I could be very wrong about this, but my feeling is that if Theon was going to die he would have already done so, at this point, living and facing those he has wronged is a greater punishment for him than dieing.

No Godless man may sit the seastone chair.....

The name Theon literally translates to of God or godly...so yea.. theon is in it for the long haul 

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They may not get out of their predicament.  It's book 6 of 7.  Time to thin out the characters.  I don't feel like Brienne's character is done.  Jaime and Arya can have their stories concluded rather nicely in TWOW though.  Theon is definitely in for the long haul.  He's the gollum.

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Im honestly worried about Jhogo and Darrio, and I suppose Hero. When I read they killed Groleo instead I was relived like Ned gazing on Mycha and disgusted by that thought. But if they kill blood of her blood or Darrio, ooh that poor girl

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Brienne has Oathkeeper and, I assume, her armor, and Jaime is not completely hopeless with a sword anymore, and he is well-armored. Lady SH has Lem, Thoros, Harwin, Jack-Be-Lucky, Tom O'Seven, and several other outlaws, all starving and poorly armed and armored, and most not very well trained. Given the right circumstances, I could see B&J fighting their way free. And I suspect that by they time they reach the group, Jaime will have figured out that Brienne is lying and he is heading into a trap.

Theon is in a bad way, but he still has value to Stannis. I would put Asha's chances of survival at less than Theon's at this point, because Asha is no longer the only Greyjoy in his possession. After that, who knows, Theon could choke on a peach pit and die.

Arya is also in a bad way. As mentioned above, she has just committed another selfish murder, so my guess is she will make it back to Westeros with an FM contract on her head. Maybe a final battle between Arya and Jaquen? Or how about this? The last person on her list to die is Cersei, who has already been killed by Jaquen who takes her face and waits for you-know-who to arrive . . .

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14 hours ago, Plain, Simple Tailor said:

There are a lot of characters who, just based on their last ADWD chapter or their TWOW sample chapter, are not in a great position. In fact, I see no way out of their situations for quite a few of them. Here's who I'm worried about right now: 

  • Jaime and Brienne 

Boy, things are not looking good for Jaime and Brienne. Every way I've tried to work this one out, it just ends up with one of them dead. Cat's not really in a great mindset for negotiating right now, and even in the trial by combat option that people have suggested, one of them ends up dead. 

Someone suggested recently that Brienne may take the Hound's helm. He/she may be into something.

Also, IIRC the cave of tBwB is full of weirdwood roots so Bran may take action too.

 

14 hours ago, Plain, Simple Tailor said:
  • Theon 

Okay, spoilers for his TWOW sample chapter, so watch out. 

  Reveal hidden contents

I mean, the poor guy's chained to a wall in Stannis' camp. Every single northern lord hates him, Stannis hates everyone, and he's insane right now. And even if he somehow survives, he's going to be back at Winterfell for the battle. Not looking great for Theon. 

However, I see a few paths out for Theon if he manages to survive Stannis' camp. 

keyword here: Bran

 

14 hours ago, Plain, Simple Tailor said:
  • Arya 

I don't think Arya's going to die (not until Book 7, anyway), but based on the TWOW Mercy chapter, this poor girl's path is just really dark. 

She is going to have a very bad time. I think the arrival of Jeyne Poole (aka "Arya") to the Iron Bank may have something to do.

 

14 hours ago, Plain, Simple Tailor said:

So, who else do you think it's looking bad for? And how are they going to get out of this pickle?? 

Sansa. The tourney is going to end in a clusterfuck of massive proportions.

Jon is going to expend a time in the ice cells freezing his dick and his soul

Davos is going to have a very "nice" time with those funny Skagosi

 

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All of the main characters are in danger.  Any of them can die.  The more fan base they have the more likely GM is to bump them off.  

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1 hour ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

All of the main characters are in danger.  Any of them can die.  The more fan base they have the more likely GM is to bump them off.  

Sam is the only character I am semi-confident will survive the series.

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14 hours ago, Makk said:

Jaime 

I believe Catelyn will offer Jaime a chance to take the black as an exchange to free Jon Snow, her sons heir, from his vows.

I'm sorry, but this has to be the dumbest suggestion I've ever seen. Cat hates Jon. Stoneheart isn't a forgiving character, she is the embodiment of Cat's wrath and fury and is against anyone who was against her family. She doesn't consider Jon family. She saw him as a threat to her son's rule. There is a 0% chance that Stoneheart does anything nice for Jon. 

Hope this doesn't come off too harshly at you. I'm attacking the idea itself not you.

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44 minutes ago, Bhain Shadowien said:

I'm sorry, but this has to be the dumbest suggestion I've ever seen. Cat hates Jon. Stoneheart isn't a forgiving character, she is the embodiment of Cat's wrath and fury and is against anyone who was against her family. She doesn't consider Jon family. She saw him as a threat to her son's rule. There is a 0% chance that Stoneheart does anything nice for Jon. 

Hope this doesn't come off too harshly at you. I'm attacking the idea itself not you.

Quote

"I've always agreed with William Faulkner—he said that the human heart in conflict with itself is the only thing worth writing about. I've always taken that as my guiding principle, and the rest is just set dressing." - George RR Martin.

It is supposed to be a decision she doesn't like, something that is very hard for her. That is what GRRM writes about. But there need to be not only compelling reasons why she wouldn't, but compelling reasons why she should. Would it be doing it for Jon or for Robb? Robb's last wish/order was that Jon would succeed him if anything should happen. There was a big deal made about this with a very powerfully written scene. Jon, Robb and Catelyn have always a fully fleshed out and complicated relationship, GRRM has put a lot of words and care into it. And now Robb was murdered. Does she really disrespect his last his last wish? I think not. And it is also logical if she wants to see the north recover as a kingdom as Robb was completely correct, the north needs a son of Eddard Stark to follow and rally around.

Now this does rely on Stoneheart still being Catelyn and not a 100% "embodiment of Cat's wrath and fury". Very little is known about Lady Stoneheart as a person because we have only caught glimpses of her from a single chapter of Merret Frey and a single chapter of Brienne. And consider the possibility that the entire Brienne chapter was an act to try and make her do something she wouldn't normally do - betray someone. If she is pure hate and nothing else she would be one of the most one dimensional characters he has ever written. I am sure there is a lot of hate there, but there is definitely cognisant thought as well.

Quote

A trestle table had been set up across the cave, in a cleft in the rock. Behind it sat a woman all in grey, cloaked and hooded. In her hands was a crown, a bronze circlet ringed by iron swords. She was studying it, her fingers stroking the blades as if to test their sharpness. Her eyes glimmered under her hood.

Is she close to weeping? Whatever it is there is definitely thought and emotion as she considers Robb's crown. Why did she want the crown and what is she going to do with it?

And although there is a great geographical distance between her and the wall, you also need to consider that the last Jaime chapter occurs months (roughly 3) before the most advanced other story lines. Whatever has been happening to Stoneheart, Jaime and co, it hasn't been notable enough to interact with any of these other story lines, travelling to the wall during this time would be perfectly viable. And of course it is a happy coincidence that Jon needs resurrecting and Catelyn can probably resurrect one person by sacrificing her own (un)life. It would be a very powerful way symbolically to give up hate.

We will see who is correct when the next book comes out.

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16 hours ago, Makk said:

I believe Catelyn will offer Jaime a chance to take the black as an exchange to free Jon Snow, her sons heir, from his vows.

Even if Stoneheart would do something like that for Jon, I feel like that isn't really how the Nights Watch works. You don't make exchanges.  

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4 minutes ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

Even if Stoneheart would do something like that for Jon, I feel like that isn't really how the Nights Watch works. You don't make exchanges.  

Robb seemed to think they would if he sent 20 men. The kingslayer should be worth more than 20.

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my take: Jamie and Brienne

Stoneheart probably wants to hang Jamie right away. Brienne could ask for an actual trial to take place in exchange for some favor. maybe she helps free the Frey's prisoners or delivers Jeyne and her mom to Stoneheart.  Thoros could have a part to play in freeing both Jamie and Brienne, considering how rational he seemed in AFFC. Thoros or Brienne could request that Jamie be sent to the wall. maybe the other group of outlaws (Edric Dayne, Greenbeard) get involved in their arc

Theon

I'm fine with Stannis beheading him. Theon's down for that to. viewing his sample chapter as part of his ADWD arc, that whole arc was just too perfect. it should really end at this point rather than go on and overstay its welcome. if Stannis wants someone dead, there's nothing Bran, 3EC, ravens, or a heart tree can do. I got a feeling we'll see Theon executed from Brans viewpoint. nice parallel to Bran visiting him in the Winterfell heart tree with Bran using his powers to manipulate the story in a huge way, but now he's powerless to save Theon if he even wants to. At the most he can give Theon closure before he gets beheaded. 

Asha wouldn't do anything to save Theon even if she could. Really don't like the idea of Theon returning to the Iron Islands, and think the last thing this story needs is another puppet for someone to rule through. just feel there is nothing for Theon's character at the isles. if he does survive to see another chapter, I think the only one who can get him out is Jeyne. She'd have to beg Stannis to spare him, and he might oblige, but Theon joining the watch if that happens. would fit with the last conversation him and Luwin had. probably gonna stop being a POV at that point and have less impact on the story just because there is no way to get his arc any better

Arya

don't know if killing Raff really pisses off the FM that much. she has an alibi. he was talking about killing the dwarf in that troupe. she was technically just defending him. think she'll stay an assassin long enough to get another contract. then something will happen to move her arc back to Westeros. 

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42 minutes ago, Makk said:

Robb seemed to think they would if he sent 20 men. The kingslayer should be worth more than 20.

The kingslayer with a right hand. Without it he would be probably another Sam (before his trip beyond the wall)

Also I would consider Robb not as a reliable source in some matters

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