Will Jon and Sansa be the fulfillment of the coming together of Ice and Fire?

[Feologild]

The coming together of ice and fire is Jon as his mother was ice and his father was fire.

 

 

[Aurane]

Probably not. I doubt that the show is going to end with that pairing since it's gross and lacks foreshadowing imo. Jon is probably ice and fire considering that his ancestors were Starks and Targaryens. 

[Ser Gareth]

On 4/11/2019 at 4:36 PM, Xemi said:

Oh cool, so Jon survives too. Well, it's kinda as expected. The last book wasn't gonna be called A Time for Wolves for nothing.

The book titles went out the window long ago, with regards to matching up with what actually happens in the books.  The title may even relate to Nymeria's pack ripping up the place.

Jon's a Targ.  And GRRM has confirmed that Sansa has lost much of her Starkness.  The story isn't going to have a happy ending for any of the major houses.  I personally believe the Targs will be wiped out completely.

[Rose of Red Lake]

18 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

Jon's a Targ. 

Ned said Jon is a Stark, even knowing he's a Targ. This line will probably be important (it was in the S8 teaser).

18 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

And GRRM has confirmed that Sansa has lost much of her Starkness

There's no "confirmation" of this. He never said "she's not a Stark and never will be." What's probably happening is that Jon and Sansa both have their Stark identities challenged, which gives them an interesting connection; its also the grist of character development. Move a character away from an identity so its something they work toward later. Sansa building a snow Winterfell is his favorite Darksword miniature. If she wasn't a Stark he'd never have her metaphorically re-building the epicenter for Starkness. 

[Cas Stark]

17 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

The book titles went out the window long ago, with regards to matching up with what actually happens in the books.  The title may even relate to Nymeria's pack ripping up the place.

Jon's a Targ.  And GRRM has confirmed that Sansa has lost much of her Starkness.  The story isn't going to have a happy ending for any of the major houses.  I personally believe the Targs will be wiped out completely.

That would mean Jon, Dany and their baby would all die, I doubt that happens.  I lean heavily to Jon dying, Dany and baby will live, but not be queen, so no restart of the Targ dynasty, the wheel is broken, but not by her.  I always hated the Jon is nissa nissa to Dany's hero, but it seems more likely than not, now.

[divica]

23 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

That would mean Jon, Dany and their baby would all die, I doubt that happens.  I lean heavily to Jon dying, Dany and baby will live, but not be queen, so no restart of the Targ dynasty, the wheel is broken, but not by her.  I always hated the Jon is nissa nissa to Dany's hero, but it seems more likely than not, now.

I think that the show has made too many stare offs between jon and the night king to not have them fighting. I really can t imagine jon not being involved in his death.

 

On the other hand I also can t imagine danny surviving the fight in winterfel and have 2 or 3 eps of everyone against cersei… I think we only have enough story if danny dies and part of those eps is jon uniting everybody and deciding what to do with cersei and westeros.

[Cas Stark]

7 minutes ago, divica said:

I think that the show has made too many stare offs between jon and the night king to not have them fighting. I really can t imagine jon not being involved in his death.

 

On the other hand I also can t imagine danny surviving the fight in winterfel and have 2 or 3 eps of everyone against cersei… I think we only have enough story if danny dies and part of those eps is jon uniting everybody and deciding what to do with cersei and westeros.

Jon will fight the NK, but then, he will die to save the world.  I kind of hate this idea, but it seems probable.  I think they will lose the fight in WF, but there will be a second final battle, or at least a deus ex machina where the WW are defeated or otherwise the war is ended.  Then I'd give the last 2 eps to have Cersei killed by Jamie or Arya posing as Jamie, and the wrap up.

[divica]

2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Jon will fight the NK, but then, he will die to save the world.  I kind of hate this idea, but it seems probable.  I think they will lose the fight in WF, but there will be a second final battle, or at least a deus ex machina where the WW are defeated or otherwise the war is ended.  Then I'd give the last 2 eps to have Cersei killed by Jamie or Arya posing as Jamie, and the wrap up.

I really hate the idea that they can march/evacuate the north faster than an army that doesn t rest or tire… Then where would they stop the others? if they pass the neck it should be impossible to stop them in a battle… Westeros should be doomed.

Even if there is a deux ex machina to defeat the others the number of casualties should be huge! If they loose the battle of winterfell everything that happens after must be very well thought to make some kind of sense… 

And they also have to make the last conflict against cersei to be interesting and a fitting end to the series. I think it needs time and backtabing politcs to end the series on a high note.

[Cas Stark]

15 minutes ago, divica said:

I really hate the idea that they can march/evacuate the north faster than an army that doesn t rest or tire… Then where would they stop the others? if they pass the neck it should be impossible to stop them in a battle… Westeros should be doomed.

Even if there is a deux ex machina to defeat the others the number of casualties should be huge! If they loose the battle of winterfell everything that happens after must be very well thought to make some kind of sense… 

And they also have to make the last conflict against cersei to be interesting and a fitting end to the series. I think it needs time and backtabing politcs to end the series on a high note.

Well, the WW/Others are pretty slow.  It may take them more time, either because they are slow or because they need the temp to drop or because the show/plot demands it.  I don't doubt there will be huge casualties or that KL will be destroyed at all.

I have a hard time seeing how any final battle is with Cersei though, her troops will be wiped out at WF, she should be just a woman in a castle with delusions of grandeur by the end, nothing but the remnants of the Lannister bannermen to guard her,  before whomever kills her.  

[Ser Gareth]

22 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

That would mean Jon, Dany and their baby would all die, I doubt that happens.  I lean heavily to Jon dying, Dany and baby will live, but not be queen, so no restart of the Targ dynasty, the wheel is broken, but not by her.  I always hated the Jon is nissa nissa to Dany's hero, but it seems more likely than not, now.

That's if she is even pregnant.

But I can't help but keep going back to the power of King's blood and two will die.  So Jon goes first, baby (now the King) goes second.  That wakes the stone Dragon (remember Viserys interpretation of waking the dragon?) which I think equates to Dany goes batshit crazy.

[Ser Gareth]

23 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Ned said Jon is a Stark, even knowing he's a Targ. This line will probably be important (it was in the S8 teaser).

There's no "confirmation" of this. He never said "she's not a Stark and never will be." What's probably happening is that Jon and Sansa both have their Stark identities challenged, which gives them an interesting connection; its also the grist of character development. Move a character away from an identity so its something they work toward later. Sansa building a snow Winterfell is his favorite Darksword miniature. If she wasn't a Stark he'd never have her metaphorically re-building the epicenter for Starkness. 

No, he responded to someone who said that Sansa had lost her starkness and was no longer like her siblings.  GRRM's response was that the observer was very perceptive.

I think Sansa is going to end up a bad guy.  Cersei MkII.

[Cas Stark]

1 hour ago, Ser Gareth said:

That's if she is even pregnant.

But I can't help but keep going back to the power of King's blood and two will die.  So Jon goes first, baby (now the King) goes second.  That wakes the stone Dragon (remember Viserys interpretation of waking the dragon?) which I think equates to Dany goes batshit crazy.

The show has strongly telegraphed that she will get pregnant, IMO.  And having her second baby also die seems like a poor plot choice, so I don't think that will happen, and I don't think she will go crazy, even though that is my preferred plot point that she goes crazy, realizes she is a terrible ruler and sacrifices herself.

[Xemi]

On 4/12/2019 at 10:46 PM, Ser Gareth said:

The book titles went out the window long ago, with regards to matching up with what actually happens in the books.  The title may even relate to Nymeria's pack ripping up the place.

Lol, says who?

 

Quote

Jon's a Targ.  And GRRM has confirmed that Sansa has lost much of her Starkness.  The story isn't going to have a happy ending for any of the major houses. 

You're funny. First Jon's a Targ,  then you say Sansa has lost her "Starkness", whatever that means lol. So Jon never had any "Targaryeness" in the1st place. At least try to keep your arguments consistent.

Quote

I personally believe the Targs will be wiped out completely.

Suuuuuure, buddy.

On 4/13/2019 at 4:05 PM, Cas Stark said:

That would mean Jon, Dany and their baby would all die, I doubt that happens.  I lean heavily to Jon dying, Dany and baby will live, but not be queen, so no restart of the Targ dynasty, the wheel is broken, but not by her.  I always hated the Jon is nissa nissa to Dany's hero, but it seems more likely than not, now.

Lol, wut? How is Jon anyone's Nissa nissa when he's obviously the one who will kill the NK? What is Dany supposed to do to him? Bore him to death with bend the knee speeches?

 

Dany is the one who will die, she wants the throne and thinks she's entitled to have it, which is why she never will.

4 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

No, he responded to someone who said that Sansa had lost her starkness and was no longer like her siblings.  GRRM's response was that the observer was very perceptive.

I think Sansa is going to end up a bad guy.  Cersei MkII.

[Angel Eyes]

5 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

That's if she is even pregnant.

But I can't help but keep going back to the power of King's blood and two will die.  So Jon goes first, baby (now the King) goes second.  That wakes the stone Dragon (remember Viserys interpretation of waking the dragon?) which I think equates to Dany goes batshit crazy.

So the baby will awaken the Great Stone Dragon?

I couldn't resist.

[Rose of Red Lake]

5 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

I think Sansa is going to end up a bad guy.  Cersei MkII.

5 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

That wakes the stone Dragon (remember Viserys interpretation of waking the dragon?) which I think equates to Dany goes batshit crazy.

So the 3 main female characters turn evil or go batshit crazy?

You know, myself and @Juligen are supposed to be the delusional Jonsas on this thread, and here you are, trying to top us 

[Angel Eyes]

40 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

So the 3 main female characters turn evil or go batshit crazy?

You know, myself and @Juligen are supposed to be the delusional Jonsas on this thread, and here you are, trying to top us 

Like we need another mad queen. We already have one in Cersei.

[Ser Gareth]

1 hour ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

So the 3 main female characters turn evil or go batshit crazy?

You know, myself and @Juligen are supposed to be the delusional Jonsas on this thread, and here you are, trying to top us 

Why is it so many people are determined to turn the show into a Game of Genders?  It's pathetic.  What the show and books have demonstrated time and time again is that you have to be an evil twat to obtain the throne.  "Nice" people simply don't win it.  If they inherit it, they soon die anyway.

As for the main characters, it's not just about the women is it?

Sansa learned how to play the game of thrones from Cersei and Littlefinger.  She's already demonstrating a high amount of jealousy and scheming.  Her revenge on Ramsay Bolton and the manner in which she orchestrated Littlefinger being dispatched also demonstrates her growing ruthlessness.

Dany has also demonstrated a ruthlessness, especially when angered.  Her wrath is as brutal and as terrifying as anyone else on the show.

Cersei isn't going to turn evil.  She already IS evil.

Arya is already a psychopath.

Brienne is probably the closest thing to a perfect Knight in the whole of Westeros.

So the above doesn't demonstrate women in good light does it?  The show therefore must be sexist right?  Any criticism of the female characters must be sexist right?  Only then take a look at the men.

Jon, dumb as a stump.  

Tyrion, almost certainly going to betray Jon/Dany due to jealousy.  Killed his own father.

Jaime, screws his own sister.  Happy to push a little boy out of a tower window.

The Hound is a psychopath.

Bronn is a selfish killer.

Bran is completely emotionless.

Sam is a coward.

Davos is a nice guy.

The show isn't exactly kind on ANY of the characters.  None of the eligible characters are fit to rule.  Male or female.

 

 

[Ser Gareth]

2 hours ago, Xemi said:

Lol, says who?

 

You're funny. First Jon's a Targ,  then you say Sansa has lost her "Starkness", whatever that means lol. So Jon never had any "Targaryeness" in the1st place. At least try to keep your arguments consistent.

Suuuuuure, buddy.

Lol, wut? How is Jon anyone's Nissa nissa when he's obviously the one who will kill the NK? What is Dany supposed to do to him? Bore him to death with bend the knee speeches?

 

Dany is the one who will die, she wants the throne and thinks she's entitled to have it, which is why she never will.

Says who - Ugh, the books?  What dance with dragons happened in ADWD exactly?

I don't know what Sansa losing her Starkness means.  That was GRRM saying that, not me.  As for Jon, he is more Stark than Targ that's for sure.

What Targs do you believe will be left?  Do you think they survive after they fulfill the prophecy that made them come to Westeros in the first place?  I just can't see it.

It could well be a case of misinterpretation when it comes to gender roles again that's for sure.  Mel may well have got the prophecy of King's blood wrong and it could be King or Queen's blood.  But if two King's are meant to die in quick succession then it'll be interesting to see how it pans out.  There is a possibility Dany does die first and then her baby has to die second.  But then if Jon is alive, Dany isn't really the Queen and their child wouldn't be the ruler either (because Jon is).  So from a succession point of view IF Mel is right, then the ruler has to die, and their heir has to die.  As Dany is not the ruler or the heir, that would suggest Jon is the one to go.

I think Dany will die too.

[Ser Gareth]

5 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

The show has strongly telegraphed that she will get pregnant, IMO.  And having her second baby also die seems like a poor plot choice, so I don't think that will happen, and I don't think she will go crazy, even though that is my preferred plot point that she goes crazy, realizes she is a terrible ruler and sacrifices herself.

It wouldn't be their choice though.  It would be GRRMs and I think it is safe to say this story is not going to have a happy ending....

[Xemi]

15 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

Why is it so many people are determined to turn the show into a Game of Genders?  It's pathetic.  What the show and books have demonstrated time and time again is that you have to be an evil twat to obtain the throne.  "Nice" people simply don't win it.  If they inherit it, they soon die anyway.

LMAO.

Aegon I, Jaehaerys I, Viserys I, Aegon III, Viserys II, Daeron II, Maekar I, Aegon V, all evil motherfuckers, clearly.

You've got to up your troling game, buddy.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

Says who - Ugh, the books?  What dance with dragons happened in ADWD exactly?

I don't know what Sansa losing her Starkness means.  That was GRRM saying that, not me.  As for Jon, he is more Stark than Targ that's for sure.

What Targs do you believe will be left?  Do you think they survive after they fulfill the prophecy that made them come to Westeros in the first place?  I just can't see it.

It could well be a case of misinterpretation when it comes to gender roles again that's for sure.  Mel may well have got the prophecy of King's blood wrong and it could be King or Queen's blood.  But if two King's are meant to die in quick succession then it'll be interesting to see how it pans out.  There is a possibility Dany does die first and then her baby has to die second.  But then if Jon is alive, Dany isn't really the Queen and their child wouldn't be the ruler either (because Jon is).  So from a succession point of view IF Mel is right, then the ruler has to die, and their heir has to die.  As Dany is not the ruler or the heir, that would suggest Jon is the one to go.

I think Dany will die too.

Huh, all the shit that was happening in Meeren with Daenerys maybe?

So if Jon is a Stark then he's included in "A time for wolves" thanks for the concession buddy.

Jon will be king, his and Dany's kid will survive too. What prophecy that made them come to Westeros in the 1st place, lol? Don't try to pass off your headcanon as facts. That goes for the rest of your post too, BTW.