Zorral Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 We can hear already the wailing and gnashing of teeth from up the timeline when season 8 concludes and none of these fan fictions show up on screen. It is the truth; Bran foresaw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 On 3/28/2019 at 2:24 PM, GrapefruitPerrier said: 2) GRRM did not add all of this incest just for craps and giggles, it must lead somewhere thematically, and Jon and the sisterhood doing the wild thing makes alot of sense based on how the novels have developed. So you think the overarching theme of the novels, beyond that life sucks and then you die, is that incest is the best way to maintain power and control? Because Jon and Sansa ending up married is sealing the deal that incest is the way to 'save' Westeros, and I feel quite confident that while the author has lost his way somewhat, this was not his intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 If incest goes anywhere ,I don't think it's the destiny of the journey. It's the origin. Let's go out from the past... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xemi Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Cas Stark said: So you think the overarching theme of the novels, beyond that life sucks and then you die, is that incest is the best way to maintain power and control? Because Jon and Sansa ending up married is sealing the deal that incest is the way to 'save' Westeros, and I feel quite confident that while the author has lost his way somewhat, this was not his intent. But Jon and Sansa is not really incest? Cousin marriage is perfectly acceptable in Westeros. Jon and Daenerys is waaaay more incestous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 33 minutes ago, Xemi said: But Jon and Sansa is not really incest? Cousin marriage is perfectly acceptable in Westeros. Jon and Daenerys is waaaay more incestous. They grew up as siblings, have believed they were siblings all their lives. Now they’ll learn they’re just cousins, and they’ll go, “cool, we’re just cousins so let’s fuck and have babies”. It’s not like flipping a switch. And that’s not even going into the small detail that Jon is not Sansa’s type, and vice versa. I actually think Jonsa and Jonrya is even more disgusting and disturbing than Jonerys, even w/ the closer blood tie Jon shares w/ auntie Dany. Because they didn’t know each other, didn’t grow up thinking they were siblings. And all of these quotes being presented as foreshadowing for Jonsa? Really? Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xemi Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: They grew up as siblings, have believed they were siblings all their lives. Now they’ll learn they’re just cousins, and they’ll go, “cool, we’re just cousins so let’s fuck and have babies”. It’s not like flipping a switch. And that’s not even going into the small detail that Jon is not Sansa’s type, and vice versa. I actually think Jonsa and Jonrya is even more disgusting and disturbing than Jonerys, even w/ the closer blood tie Jon shares w/ auntie Dany. Because they didn’t know each other, didn’t grow up thinking they were siblings. And all of these quotes being presented as foreshadowing for Jonsa? Really? Wow. I don't think Jonsa will happen because it wouldn't make much sense politically, I've said so several times. However in political marriages the feelings of the people involved are of little consequence, so if it happened Jon and Sansa would have to suck it up in that case (not that Sansa was all that close to Jon either, anyways). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said: They grew up as siblings, have believed they were siblings all their lives. Now they’ll learn they’re just cousins, and they’ll go, “cool, we’re just cousins so let’s fuck and have babies”. It’s not like flipping a switch. And that’s not even going into the small detail that Jon is not Sansa’s type, and vice versa. I actually think Jonsa and Jonrya is even more disgusting and disturbing than Jonerys, even w/ the closer blood tie Jon shares w/ auntie Dany. Because they didn’t know each other, didn’t grow up thinking they were siblings. And all of these quotes being presented as foreshadowing for Jonsa? Really? Wow. 1) Sansa almost always (always) references Jon as a half brother, while Arya calls him brother. Does it matter? Whao knows. 2) I find lots of stuff in Westeros disgusting, but my feelings are irrelevant to GRRM and the story, yours are too. (more disgusting than incest - rape, torture, killing innocents, slavery, sex slavery, child labor, child sex slaves, humans fighting to the death for sport, dragons eating children, orpans left on street to die, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 48 minutes ago, Xemi said: I don't think Jonsa will happen because it wouldn't make much sense politically, I've said so several times. However in political marriages the feelings of the people involved are of little consequence, so if it happened Jon and Sansa would have to suck it up in that case (not that Sansa was all that close to Jon either, anyways). Politics will be irrelevant after the NK and the wights get done with the place. John and Sansa are about the only two who can fulfill the prophecy the whole damn story is based on. The whole story is alot more important to GRRM than the politics, which he has crapped all over several times for story development (Robb, Stannis, Dany, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Cas Stark said: So you think the overarching theme of the novels, beyond that life sucks and then you die, is that incest is the best way to maintain power and control? Because Jon and Sansa ending up married is sealing the deal that incest is the way to 'save' Westeros, and I feel quite confident that while the author has lost his way somewhat, this was not his intent. That not what I said. I said that incest is uncomfortable and GRRM likes making us uncomfortable and he is using our Christian morals to tweak us. Jon and Sansa seal the prophecy of the entire story, and in Westeros terms it is not even incest, but it makes modern readers uncomfortable and GRRM loves doing that to us. He will do it again, with this or something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 5 hours ago, Zorral said: We can hear already the wailing and gnashing of teeth from up the timeline when season 8 concludes and none of these fan fictions show up on screen. It is the truth; Bran foresaw it. THIS is likely true. Season 8 will be all war and almost no character development - this will have to wait for the books - as the TV cartoon will have zero time to develop characters between dragons, sword fights, and war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 22 hours ago, Error-504 said: Ned And Cat did ok, No way Jon marries Sansa, glad this thread is here for lol's after the season ends. Sorry, can't kill this with the TV cartoon, it takes GRRM books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 32 minutes ago, GrapefruitPerrier said: That not what I said. I said that incest is uncomfortable and GRRM likes making us uncomfortable and he is using our Christian morals to tweak us. Jon and Sansa seal the prophecy of the entire story, and in Westeros terms it is not even incest, but it makes modern readers uncomfortable and GRRM loves doing that to us. He will do it again, with this or something else. You said it was important thematically. So, what is the theme that is important related to incest where the story ends in two people who grew up believing they were brother and sister marrying? The entire purpose of the series is to make the reader uncomfortable? Is that it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, GrapefruitPerrier said: Sorry, can't kill this with the TV cartoon, it takes GRRM books. Well, the fact that the books are unwritten and probably will stay that way is certainly convenient for the continuation of crackpot theories.....if you choose to believe that the show is going to diverge significantly in the ending for the main characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 27 minutes ago, Cas Stark said: You said it was important thematically. So, what is the theme that is important related to incest where the story ends in two people who grew up believing they were brother and sister marrying? The entire purpose of the series is to make the reader uncomfortable? Is that it? No, sorry, let me try this again. 1) A fundamental ploy used by writers is to make the reader uncomfortable - this thread shows exactly that (incest makes alot of modern people fundamentally uncomfortable). Namely GRRM has used rape, torture, killing innocents, AND incest to make you uncomfortable and keep you interested. Incest seems the outlier from "most" medieval type fantasy, so why did he use it so heavily? I think he used it so heavily as it is part of the primary story, and if it is part of the primary story then Jon marrying his "sister" may be the reason for it. 2) How else can GRRM fulfill the primary theme of the book, bringing together fire and ice? I guess it is possible that this is fulfilled in some other way than marriage, but the fan base has been POSITIVE for years that this was fulfilled with a Targ/Stark marriage. How else can it be fulfilled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, Cas Stark said: Well, the fact that the books are unwritten and probably will stay that way is certainly convenient for the continuation of crackpot theories.....if you choose to believe that the show is going to diverge significantly in the ending for the main characters. I think the cartoon will not fully develop the story and will only hit the main point - namely who wins. I had hopes early on that this would go on for the ten or so seasons required to tell the story, but it was not to be. Instead we get thousand of pages either not dealt with at all or dealt with within minutes on screen. If this is crackpot then tell me how the primary, over-riding theme of the book (bringing together fire and ice) is fulfilled by your not crackpot, perfectly formed idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 Hmm, on another note, is the bringing together of fire and ice the use of Lightbringer to kill the NK? A quick search shows others think this is the fulfillment, worth another thread or is this crackpot too? And if this is the fulfillment, why would the real Lightbringer sword not have been introduced into the show (as I do think the cartoon will follow the over-arching themes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T and A Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 This thread will go as one of the most tinfoil threads in the GoT subforum history . That's quite an achievement, I must say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 36 minutes ago, GrapefruitPerrier said: I think the cartoon will not fully develop the story and will only hit the main point - namely who wins. I had hopes early on that this would go on for the ten or so seasons required to tell the story, but it was not to be. Instead we get thousand of pages either not dealt with at all or dealt with within minutes on screen. If this is crackpot then tell me how the primary, over-riding theme of the book (bringing together fire and ice) is fulfilled by your not crackpot, perfectly formed idea? a) Jon Snow is already the union of Fire [Rhaegar] and Ice [Lyanna], you know, He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire.... b) Jon and Dany are the union of Fire and Ice. That doesn't actually work as well since he's Fire/Ice and She's Fire/Fire so the union is Fire/Fire/Fire/Ice. LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, T and A said: This thread will go as one of the most tinfoil threads in the GoT subforum history . That's quite an achievement, I must say. Really? What about this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 9 minutes ago, T and A said: This thread will go as one of the most tinfoil threads in the GoT subforum history . That's quite an achievement, I must say. Really? What about this article. https://www.hypable.com/sorry-about-the-awkward-jon-sansa-incest-vibes/ https://winteriscoming.net/2016/09/17/romance-rivalry-benefits-jonsansa-marriage/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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