Rose of Red Lake Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Tze highlighted the importance of Jon and Sansa in the books in 2012. Blindestspot wrote the first essay on a potential romance in 2013. Honestly there could have been way more written on this back in the day, but people were getting distracted by Sansa and the Hound, thinking that was endgame. It's obviously not. The author was even surprised they had a following. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Error-504 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 3 hours ago, Cas Stark said: That doesn't make sense to me, the showrunners and the author have always used language about the journey being different but ending at the same place. So, the idea that you seem to have, which is that Jon and Sansa will end together in the books but not the show, seems misguided in the extreme, and as if you are building in a ready made excuse for when it doesn't happen on the show. For the main characters, I can't imagine the end will be different in any substantial way. Nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teej6 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 42 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: Tze highlighted the importance of Jon and Sansa in the books in 2012. Blindestspot wrote the first essay on a potential romance in 2013. Honestly there could have been way more written on this back in the day, but people were getting distracted by Sansa and the Hound, thinking that was endgame. It's obviously not. The author was even surprised they had a following. @tze analysis were truly a treat to read and most times I agreed with her but I don’t recall her ever talking about a marriage union between Jon and Sansa or any foreshadowing for such a union. Her post you referred to describes Sansa’s general relationship with Jon as opposed to the other Stark siblings relationship with him, and not any foreshadowing of a Jon/Sana marriage. As to the other essay you quoted, I can’t opine on that as I have not read the author’s work. I was talking generally about book readers on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajjo Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 On 3/28/2019 at 7:05 PM, GrapefruitPerrier said: Jon is now a known Targ Jon is half Stark and half Targaryen. He is Fire and Ice joint together. On 3/30/2019 at 4:15 PM, prettylongclaw said: Every single time her future marriage is discussed we have a JON chapter following it. It can not be more clear. George is literally telling us who will be her final husband. The leaps people do to not see it the foreshadow of this pairing is quite amazing. I belive this is because most focus on the show and not the books here. And the show does not hint so clearly towards Jon/Sansa. They just made us believe that Jon and Daenerys are in love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 32 minutes ago, Kajjo said: Jon is half Stark and half Targaryen. He is Fire and Ice joint together. I belive this is because most focus on the show and not the books here. And the show does not hint so clearly towards Jon/Sansa. They just made us believe that Jon and Daenerys are in love. GRRM wrote this, not D and D - in the D and D world I could see the Dny/Jon happy ending fulfilling the ice and fire prophecy. I dont see it in the books, and thus it cant happen in the show. So does Jon just stay a bastard, unmarried, in the books and the show? No, the show ends before the final character development, and the book with the final character development. I have stated what I think that is, but those who think wneh the show ends one ot two scenes after the NK is killed, and the books end at the same point? No way - GRRM will close at least some, and maybe most, of the lose ends. For those stuck on the show who thinks the book story is an "excuse" for the true story - get over yourselves. This is GRRMs story and he will have the final say over the cartoons - I think he will finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Error-504 said: Nailed it. Anyone who uses the show as the definitive point on anything (even the show itself) isnt a fan of Game of Thrones. Just sayin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 49 minutes ago, teej6 said: @tze analysis were truly a treat to read and most times I agreed with her but I don’t recall her ever talking about a marriage union between Jon and Sansa or any foreshadowing for such a union. Her post you referred to describes Sansa’s general relationship with Jon as opposed to the other Stark siblings relationship with him, and not any foreshadowing of a Jon/Sana marriage. As to the other essay you quoted, I can’t opine on that as I have not read the author’s work. I was talking generally about book readers on this forum. One reason why Tze might not have predicted it, is because people had no idea GRRM intended the story to have pseudo-incest with a Stark sibling. The release of the original outline changed that thinking. Now that we know GRRM had intended that from the start, people started to wonder if some of those interesting connections that Tze observed between Jon and Sansa meant something more. Another one of my favorite Jon and Sansa posts on this forum is by Thor Odinson Book fans also exist outside of this forum and post book theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teej6 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Just now, Rose of Red Lake said: Readers on this forum aren't the only book fans. I didn’t say they were, just that I was referring to the book forum on this website. And considering this website is one of the first online forums for discussion on ASOIAF, most the book readers on this forum have analyzed the text inside out several times over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 1 minute ago, teej6 said: I didn’t say they were, just that I was referring to the book forum on this website. And considering this website is one of the first online forums for discussion on ASOIAF, most the book readers on this forum have analyzed the text inside out several times over. You must value the forums? I don't put much stock in them. Folks analyzed Sandor and Sansa for years and that was a dead end. Seems like most people are more concerned with crackpot theories, prophecies, or the magical window dressing than with character arcs or parallels. A lot of book fans hate Sansa, ignore her importance, or don't see her as a major player, and that's a big flaw in any endgame theory IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teej6 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 9 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: A lot of book fans hate Sansa, ignore her importance, or don't see her as a major player, and that's a big flaw in any endgame theory IMO. Actually a lot of old posters on this forum who were primarily book fans enjoyed Sansa and her arc quite a bit. There are many who are Sansa fans, so stop generalizing. One can be a Sansa fan without having to subscribe to the rediculous fanfic of Jon and Sansa getting married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 1 minute ago, teej6 said: Actually a lot of old posters on this forum who were primarily book fans enjoyed Sansa and her arc quite a bit. There are many who are Sansa fans, so stop generalizing. One can be a Sansa fan without having to believe the rediculous fanfic of Jon and Sansa getting married. Oh really, where are all of the Sansa becomes Lady of WF, Sansa becomes Queen in the North theories floating around? If I recall in the Pawn to Player threads, they basically had her sitting in the Vale seducing Littlefinger. Gross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teej6 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: Oh really, where are all of the Sansa becomes Lady of WF, Sansa becomes Queen in the North theories floating around? If I recall in the Pawn to Player threads, they basically had her sitting in the Vale seducing Littlefinger. Gross. Why must someone who is a Sansa fan or who likes her arc subscribe to your theories? That’s just plain rediculous. People can like Sansa and have completely different ideas of how her arc will turn out. And btw, the Sansa Pawn to Player threads had more sound arguments and textual evidence than anything I’ve seen you espouse on this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Just now, teej6 said: Why must someone who is a Sansa fan or who likes her arc subscribe to your theories? That’s just plain rediculous. People can like Sansa and have completely different ideas of how her arc will turn out. And btw, the Sansa Pawn to Player threads had more sound arguments and textual evidence than anything I’ve seen you espouse on this site. If folks are disputing a very basic continuation in her arc - that she becomes Lady of Winterfell and Key to the North again - surely you can see why their "completely different ideas" are tedious. It means they completely missed the foreshadowing with the snow castle scene. The Pawn to Player threads never really took her far enough to ask what will becoming a player actually mean in the end game. They're incomplete and have too much pedo-seduction throughout, expecting Sansa to become a sex kitten. This is waaaaaaay off. The surprise twist IMO is that she is on a queen consort arc - queen of WESTEROS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Error-504 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 5 hours ago, GrapefruitPerrier said: Anyone who uses the show as the definitive point on anything (even the show itself) isnt a fan of Game of Thrones. Just sayin' Yeah, because when people respond to your post in a section of the forum dedicated to the show, crazy to imagine they might think your actually talking about the show, which initially you were, until you were shown how silly it was to think a Jon Sansa marriage could happen in the show universe. keep waiting for "the book that was promised" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Error-504 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 5 hours ago, GrapefruitPerrier said: GRRM wrote this, not D and D - in the D and D world I could see the Dny/Jon happy ending fulfilling the ice and fire prophecy. I dont see it in the books, and thus it cant happen in the show. So does Jon just stay a bastard, unmarried, in the books and the show? No, the show ends before the final character development, and the book with the final character development. I have stated what I think that is, but those who think wneh the show ends one ot two scenes after the NK is killed, and the books end at the same point? No way - GRRM will close at least some, and maybe most, of the lose ends. For those stuck on the show who thinks the book story is an "excuse" for the true story - get over yourselves. This is GRRMs story and he will have the final say over the cartoons - I think he will finish. So it can't happen because you don't see it? Maybe your the one that needs to "get over themselves" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 No, it is not sbout me, it is about the story creator who we should all bow down to - GRRM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Error-504 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 49 minutes ago, GrapefruitPerrier said: No, it is not sbout me, it is about the story creator who we should all bow down to - GRRM! At least the show runners had the presence of mind to actually finish. I bow down to no quitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Error-504 said: At least the show runners had the presence of mind o actually finish. I bow down to no quitter. I have to agree. The show is deeply flawed and has been for several seasons, but at least they stuck with their commitment and are giving us an ending, which is more than the creator of the tale will probably do...of course, if he does finish, Jon and Sansa marrying isn't going to happen in the books any more than it will happen in the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 This thread has deteriorated to mostly off point discussions, which is likely my fault for feeding trolls. I would move the discussion of Jonsa here: As for defending GRRM, I find it ironic and sad that some attack the guy who built the world and the story. GRRM owes us nothing, but I thank him for his hard work. MODS - feel free to close this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 On 3/30/2019 at 10:19 AM, Error-504 said: Now that is what you call foreshadowing, not some silly "this came after that" chapter in the book nonsense. Oh there is definitely something going on with the chapter order. The author is having fun with it. For example: Quote “Tommen has his mother.” Ser Kevan’s green eyes met her own, unblinking. A last drop of wine trembled wet and red beneath his chin, and finally fell. “Aye,” he added softly, after a pause, “and his father too, I think.” - Cersei, AFFC Next chapter: Jaime On 3/30/2019 at 10:19 AM, Error-504 said: “You,” Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, “will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon.” And Arya corrects him and says no, that's Sansa. Why are you leaving that part out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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