stannis and the valonqar

[silverwolf22]

Cersei’s hostility toward Stannis certainly doesn’t need any  explanation, but it’s worth saying that he is the younger brother of a person specified in the prophecy (robert ). Cersei wants the valonqar to be Tyrion, someone she’s comfortable hating and feels like she can fight back against, but I suspect the idea of stannis being the valonqar ( despite people acting like the prophecy has to be one of her 2 brothers maggy said the valonqar not her valonqar and I disagree with the notion that it would be bad if it wasnt one of her two brothers.) still at the back of her mind. But look what happens to this valonqar candidate: Melisandre looks into her magic fire and tells Stannis that his younger brother will defeat him and so he tacitly agrees to Renly’s death, which leads the Tyrells (and not-Renly, who in both book and show is played by a Tyrell who is a younger brother) to join up with the Lannisters, who defeat Stannis on the Blackwater with magic fire. 

what does this hint to for cerseis valonqar prophecy I think it may hint that cerseis attempt to stop the  valonqar prophecy will end up causing  it to come to fruition   and adds to what I said before about jaime and tyrian not being cerseis valonqar  ( people act like there is a limit to what can be meaningful to cersei https://makerkenzie.tumblr.com/post/176709540810/is-that-the-limit-of-whats-meaningful-to-cersei

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When y’all argue that Jaime is the only option for Cersei’s killer because “the identity of the killer has to meaningful to Cersei” and Jaime is the only one who could be meaningful because he’s not the brother she suspects, what I’m hearing is:

1. All of Jaime’s arc is a giant red herring to cover up the fact that his greatest purpose in the narrative is as a plot device to go around killing shitty monarchs, and

2. He can’t possibly be more thematically important than that because Cersei thinks his existence revolves around her, and we all know,

3. The Valonqar has to be Jaime because he’s the more ironic choice of her two brothers, and

4. The Valonqar must be Cersei’s actual brother because otherwise Cersei would be wrong about something other than Tyrion being the pre-destined killer, and

5. Cersei being wrong about anything, especially her relationship with her twin, is a rare and momentous occasion and is clearly the most unexpected thing that will ever happen with her, 

5a. Because it’s not like Cersei was already telling herself Jaime would “never abandon her for such a creature” when he had absolutely burned Cersei’s letter and then run off with Brienne, no, not at all!

6. (All this is leaving aside the question of how much Cersei even trusts Jaime anymore as of the start of AFFC, the book in which Maggy’s Prophecy is first introduced and the book in which Cersei finally becomes a POV character)

7. The only interesting way that Cersei’s response to the prophecy could lead to the fulfillment of the prophecy is by her focusing on Tyrion instead of Jaime,

7a. Because it’s not like Cersei already had a death wish for Tyrion and an unhealthy attachment to Jaime long before she ever met Maggy the Frog.

8. And we know there’s no other possible way for the fulfillment of the prophecy to be meaningful to Cersei because we’ve already established Cersei cannot possibly be wrong about the Valonqar being her younger brother, therefore,

9. There’s no point in examining the linguistics in the Valonqar phrasing itself, because of course there’s nothing the least bit odd about someone using the Common Tongue absolutely perfectly for everything she needs to say except for a phrase which supposedly translates as “your younger brother.” 

10. And we know it’s totally normal and unremarkable for Maggy to say “…the Valonqar will wrap his hands around your pale white throat” when she would’ve had the same effect on Cersei by saying “…your little brother will wrap his hands around your pale white throat” because Cersei thinks that’s what she meant, and if Cersei thinks so, well

 

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•  oh-and-also-jaime-has-to-die-along-with-cersei-because-cersei-thinks-we-will-leave-this-world-together-as-we-came-into-it
• OH AND ALSO JAIME HAS TO DIE ALONG WITH CERSEI BECAUSE CERSEI THINKS WE WILL LEAVE THIS WORLD TOGETHER AS WE CAME INTO IToh-well-if-cersei-thinks-so-then-i-guess-that%27s-all-there-is-to-itOH WELL IF CERSEI THINKS SO THEN I GUESS THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IToh-well-if-cersei-thinks-so-then-i-guess-that%27s-all-there-is-to-it (sarcasm)
• I AM A SA

 

 

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[Damsel in Distress]

Jaime doesn't have any problem killing people but he will not be able to kill his sister-lover.  I do not see his plot heading in that direction.  Tyrion is the one who will stop Cersei.  

[NonoNono]

Valonqar wraps his hands around her pale white throat. Plural. Jaime has one hand.

Tyrion has already choked a woman to death, he’s not doing that again.

I think it will be Aegon VI.

[Fire Eater]

On 3/29/2019 at 7:43 PM, Damsel in Distress said:

Jaime doesn't have any problem killing people but he will not be able to kill his sister-lover.  I do not see his plot heading in that direction.  Tyrion is the one who will stop Cersei.  

Except Tyrion goes against GRRM's own words on prophecy in that it should be "too literal or too easy." 

 

On 3/30/2019 at 1:11 AM, NonoNono said:

Valonqar wraps his hands around her pale white throat. Plural. Jaime has one hand.

Tyrion has already choked a woman to death, he’s not doing that again.

I think it will be Aegon VI.

You're forgetting about the Hand's chain which is made up of hands. Tyrion managed to strangle Shae with one arm with it. 

[NonoNono]

9 minutes ago, Fire Eater said:

Except Tyrion goes against GRRM's own words on prophecy in that it should be "too literal or too easy." 

 

You're forgetting about the Hand's chain which is made up of hands. Tyrion managed to strangle Shae with one arm with it. 

Good point, but what would the outcome of that be? Jaime choking Cersei with a chain of hands?

[Fire Eater]

2 minutes ago, NonoNono said:

Good point, but what would the outcome of that be? Jaime choking Cersei with a chain of hands?

I think Jaime would succeed, but Cersei, who always thought she should have gotten the sword instead of Jaime, pulls his sword from its scabbard and mortally wounds him. With his one hand occupied, he couldn't block her attempt to stab him, but he would succeed in strangling her before succumbing to his wound. 

[NonoNono]

2 minutes ago, Fire Eater said:

I think Jaime would succeed, but Cersei, who always thought she should have gotten the sword instead of Jaime, pulls his sword from its scabbard and mortally wounds him. With his one hand occupied, he couldn't block her attempt to stab him, but he would succeed in strangling her before succumbing to his wound. 

But that doesn't explain how he would "wrap his hands around her pale white neck" if he has only one hand?

[Fire Eater]

1 minute ago, NonoNono said:

But that doesn't explain how he would "wrap his hands around her pale white neck" if he has only one hand?

I already clearly explained that in my first post in this thread.

 

19 minutes ago, Fire Eater said:

Except Tyrion goes against GRRM's own words on prophecy in that it should be "too literal or too easy." 

 

You're forgetting about the Hand's chain which is made up of hands. Tyrion managed to strangle Shae with one arm with it. 

 

[NonoNono]

Just now, Fire Eater said:

I already clearly explained that in my first post in this thread.

 

 

I understand, I just don't see how a chain of hands relates to Jaime choking Cersei. I'm just saying I don't see how Jaime would choke Cersei with one, I mean, unless he somehow takes it from Qyburn and all, seems like a stretch, of I misunderstood what you said.

[Fire Eater]

1 minute ago, NonoNono said:

I understand, I just don't see how a chain of hands relates to Jaime choking Cersei. I'm just saying I don't see how Jaime would choke Cersei with one, I mean, unless he somehow takes it from Qyburn and all, seems like a stretch, of I misunderstood what you said.

"Wrap his hands"= wrap the Hand's chain (which is made of gold hands) around her neck. Also, Tyrion managed to strangle Shae with the Hand's chain with just one arm, and he isn't as strong as Jaime. He could assume the office of Hand if Mace (likely) dies, just to keep things running, especially with an increasingly unstable Cersei. 

[NonoNono]

Just now, Fire Eater said:

"Wrap his hands"= wrap the Hand's chain (which is made of gold hands) around her neck. Also, Tyrion managed to strangle Shae with the Hand's chain with just one arm, and he isn't as strong as Jaime. He could assume the office of Hand if Mace (likely) dies, just to keep things running, especially with an increasingly unstable Cersei. 

Ah now I see. Would be an interesting parallel between Tyrion and Jaime. I like how in the books Cersei thinks Tyrion is hiding in the walls. Can't wait to see her reaction to Kevan's death, killed by a crossbow no less, she'll go madder still.