Nowy Tends Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 Beware. Trolls at work. Don't feed them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna<3Rhaegar Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 I'm late to the party & haven't been here in awhile but thought I'd drop by. It's nice to see the Jon haters still hating & with the same lame, erroneous arguments as before. To the OP - nice post. Very well thought out. I agree with you 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneFretfulTrout Posted May 18, 2019 Share Posted May 18, 2019 “What is the life of one (girl) against a kingdom?” “Everything.” Davos, ASoS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted May 18, 2019 Share Posted May 18, 2019 53 minutes ago, OneFretfulTrout said: “What is the life of one (girl) against a kingdom?” “Everything.” Davos, ASoS By the old and the new gods at least make an effort. A Storm of Swords - Davos V "If Joffrey should die . . . what is the life of one bastard boy against a kingdom?" "Everything," said Davos, softly./ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow is the man Posted May 18, 2019 Share Posted May 18, 2019 I think the NW is an organization that has gone from honorable warriors to a few honorable warriors leading a bunch or rapists,thieves,murders,and traitors. I like jon however we have to remember when the story started he was only 14 and is now at most 17 unless I missed something. He is still very young and is more or less a loner from what we see. Yeah he has friends but I feel like he is more used to being by himself. So even if he is the most honorable person ever he is one man surrounded by murders,rapist,thieves,traitors,and stannis men who are self entitled snobs who are scheming about everything. In my opinion the state of the nights watch is what made it vulnerable to mutiny which we see beyond the wall. Add in the pressure from south and north of the wall and it's gonna break. Whether or not you like jon or agree with his actions or not I don't think that any lord commander would have done well in that situation. If he had told stannis to piss off stannis could have overpowered the nights watch with little effort. Yet if he helps stannis too much he breaks his neutrality. This couldn't be sustained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Saga Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 According to the original Night Watch's vow (we know that because of the gate bellow the Night Fort) Jon is not a traitor. "I am the watcher on the walls, I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, I am the Shield that guards the realms of men." The part about having "no children","hold no lands" and not being part in the matters of the seven kingdoms were later additions. I am not sure even if Marsh and the Mutinees believe in the others.He was not there during the wight attempt to kill Mormont,or in the Fist of the first men ,no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneFretfulTrout Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 9 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said: By the old and the new gods at least make an effort. A Storm of Swords - Davos V "If Joffrey should die . . . what is the life of one bastard boy against a kingdom?" "Everything," said Davos, softly./ I was referring to fArya, Alys and Barra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 6 hours ago, Saint Saga said: According to the original Night Watch's vow (we know that because of the gate bellow the Night Fort) Jon is not a traitor. "I am the watcher on the walls, I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, I am the Shield that guards the realms of men." The part about having "no children","hold no lands" and not being part in the matters of the seven kingdoms were later additions. I am not sure even if Marsh and the Mutinees believe in the others.He was not there during the wight attempt to kill Mormont,or in the Fist of the first men ,no? Except that there were many survivors of the FotFM that came back and told them everything. Marsh is a myopic xenophobe who, as @Alexis-something-Rose said, is also a moral coward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 17 hours ago, OneFretfulTrout said: I was referring to fArya, Alys and Barra I didn't catch the reference. It appeared to me there was a quote being used out of context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vashon Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 On 5/18/2019 at 5:56 PM, snow is the man said: I think the NW is an organization that has gone from honorable warriors to a few honorable warriors leading a bunch or rapists,thieves,murders,and traitors. And you know what? They were doing alright, right up until Mormont made a grievous error in judgement, one he likely forgot to even consider. The limits of pushing men. Mormont was considering the long term picture of keeping Craster's Keep around and in use for later, while forgetting about the very real possibility that in the short term, everything was at the breaking point. The best thing he could have done was kept moving after as short a stay as possible, and make it back. Its possible that was the first group of Watchman slaugthered by Wights like that in centuries, millenia even. They fought through hell and afterwards, none of the survivors deserted. None. They had done the duty they had sworn to do, a duty no one expected would ever need to be fulfilled. And Mormont failed to realize how bad morale had gotten. His best bet would have been to loot the place and force march Craster and his wives to the other side of the Wall, and kill him if he refused. In fact, of that group, the only that failed outright was Samwell Tarly, of the Fatass NEET Niceguy brigade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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