the tyrell house will be destroyed ( many tyrells will die ) in the winds of winter and the martell family will be destroyed to signify the coming of long night

[Lord Varys]

Sounds more or less like nonsense if you ask me. Dorne doesn't give a fig about winter (as is hinted at in FaB), so even this winter will have to take its time before it is going to be felt in any meaningful way in Dorne.

And the Reach isn't a place where it is snowing a lot, either, especially not in the southern part. George has gone on record that it snows 'almost never' in Oldtown and Dorne.

The Tyrells will face some trouble, but they are far too numerous and well-connected a house to be actually toppled. Nobody is going to topple the Lannisters, either. If Tywin's entire brood were to die, then another branch will take over, and then another. The Tyrells started as dolts in the Reach, but they no longer are dolts. Mace might not be the sharpest knife in the box, but he is a very well-connected oaf. His family would remain in charge of the Reach even if he was a literal lackwit, because the Tyrells are literally everywhere - in Highgarden, on the Arbor, in Oldtown, wherever the Green Apple Fossoways live, at Bandallon, at Blackcrown, etc. They still don't have exactly the same standing as the ancient families, but they do control everything anyway.

The idea that any rivals of the Tyrells in the Reach actually is going to be able to supplant them is pretty laughable, especially if one were to think of the Tarlys. There are just two of them, whereas there is an army of Tyrells against them, and considering their overall mindset and the current situation chances that they end up fighting each other is about zero (infighting might happen among the Lannisters of Casterly Rock now that Kevan is dead and Jaime missing, but that's not going give, say, the Leffords or the Crakehalls, or some other great house of the West an opening to seize Casterly Rock and the West - the very though is ridiculous).

[In Cauda Venenum]

Hiya Mother!

 

That’s a fair point about Margeary. Thanks for addressing the question. 

1 hour ago, The Mother of The Others said:

 Meanwhile the Others are gaining kids/heirs like they run an orphanage.   Frey was in the best position to live out the winter by supplying the walkers with his endless supply of kids, but not so much anymore.   It's looking good for a total reset, the dumping of these eternal ruling houses and their illustrious surnames.

To sort of bring it home, I think it’s pretty much a given that winter will bring its fair share of carnage. To claim that any Tyrells and Martells will die to symbolically convey winter’s arrival, is misguided. That line of thinking ends up being awfully selective. The Starks are “direwolves” and they are in much worse shape than the Tyrells. I don’t see winter improving anyone’s prospects, Starks and Tyrells alike.

 

Disclaimer: I don’t think anyone wants Frey kids, least of all the ethereal and inhuman beings out of the north... but I guess it could be ironic

[John Suburbs]

14 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Sounds more or less like nonsense if you ask me. Dorne doesn't give a fig about winter (as is hinted at in FaB), so even this winter will have to take its time before it is going to be felt in any meaningful way in Dorne.

And the Reach isn't a place where it is snowing a lot, either, especially not in the southern part. George has gone on record that it snows 'almost never' in Oldtown and Dorne.

The Tyrells will face some trouble, but they are far too numerous and well-connected a house to be actually toppled. Nobody is going to topple the Lannisters, either. If Tywin's entire brood were to die, then another branch will take over, and then another. The Tyrells started as dolts in the Reach, but they no longer are dolts. Mace might not be the sharpest knife in the box, but he is a very well-connected oaf. His family would remain in charge of the Reach even if he was a literal lackwit, because the Tyrells are literally everywhere - in Highgarden, on the Arbor, in Oldtown, wherever the Green Apple Fossoways live, at Bandallon, at Blackcrown, etc. They still don't have exactly the same standing as the ancient families, but they do control everything anyway.

The idea that any rivals of the Tyrells in the Reach actually is going to be able to supplant them is pretty laughable, especially if one were to think of the Tarlys. There are just two of them, whereas there is an army of Tyrells against them, and considering their overall mindset and the current situation chances that they end up fighting each other is about zero (infighting might happen among the Lannisters of Casterly Rock now that Kevan is dead and Jaime missing, but that's not going give, say, the Leffords or the Crakehalls, or some other great house of the West an opening to seize Casterly Rock and the West - the very though is ridiculous).

True. It always struck me that winter should be the good times in Dorne. It should be their rainy season that opens more of their lands to agriculture, particularly in the marches, and allows rivers like the Greenblood to rise for better irrigation to nearby farmlands.

But having said that, can we envision that if the Others do break through, then wherever they go becomes a real winter with snow and ice and freezing temps? Even in the southron realms?

[CAllDSmith]

On 4/4/2019 at 12:23 PM, Karneol said:

I dont think the Florents will be the replacement. After supporting Stannis in all this toime and after Garlan will siege them they wont have any power left.

The main branch of House Martell is going to die out. Doran is digging them a nice grave with all his conspirencies. Trystane is going to die in KL because of Cersei and Ariannes Stormland trip is more dangerous than she thinks.

I also see very bad chances for the Sandsnakes: Obara loses against Darkstar, Tyene will die in Cerseis Anti-Sparrow-Campaign, Nymeria in a KL intrigue and I dont see Sarella coming back from the Citadel (only as Maester).

But. Who. Replaces. Them. ?

I'm only being so ardent on this because ,besides farce at Baelor's, this is dumbest part of the show and the ruin of everything the show built. All the pages about the Martells and Tyrells in World and F&B would be just waste paper if this happens. There's a reason why we can say, (In the books.) it will most likely not end with the Others turning all of Planetos into a desolate white wasteland. No sane human being is going to spend thousands and thousands of hours writing millions of words just to end with a blank page. 

Another way to compare this issue to the show, and the show to other shows, is the issue of extras. In Lost they reused extras, to the point where the fandom had nicknames for certain extras and continuity around them. GoT for various reasons chose to cast "random bearded old men" for all their extras and not recycle them instead of actually attaching an actor to each character. They also chose to kill off characters off screen inexplicably (Maege, Greatjon) and with little fanfare. We're now going into a final season where 1/3rd of Westeros's regions are going to have no closure. 

When it comes to who is a POV it has largely been based on who could be nearby to witness certain events. Tyrion going to KL, Barristan becoming a POV when Dany was going to disappear from Mereen. Aeron, Victarion, and Asha to witness the issues in the Iron Islands and with Stannis respectively. Tarly to show us Oldtown and the events after the Fist. Catelyn the wandering war journalist. Jon Con and Aegon's invasion plus some backstory on the Rebellion from the other side. 

If Arianne is moving to the Stormlands it means that she's going to be needed to witness something there that Jon Connington won't be able to see. For example, her excerpt shows us what is happening in the Stormlands as well as what semi-informed people think of Dany. Areo Hotah is probably going to be the viewpoint of dealing with Darkstar and stopping the Trystane assassination, (Since that assassination is taking place in the Kingswood it could also be Jon Con witnessing it. As for the Tyrells, there's still a ton of them and they're in the best position of any House in Weteros right now, they're also based off the Tudors so they have that going for them. 

But, back to my main point. This story isn't about the Yronwoods, or the Daynes, or the Florents. It's about the Martells, Starks, Lannisters etc. If this story were going to be about these families being wiped out, we'd also have seen the story of the rise of those who are going to replace them. We have whole detailed lineages of how Harry the Heir became Harry the Heir, and one of the central plots was a succession crisis. GRMM knows and cares about logical consequences and there's no set up for logical consequences of either of these Houses being wiped out, nor is it an idea that makes sense. 

[Plain, Simple Tailor]

On 4/1/2019 at 3:42 PM, silverwolf22 said:

the tyrells symbol is the rose and the roses and plants die in the winter while night is when the sun is gone from the sky and the martell family symbol is the sun so it would be fitting if the tyrells are destroyed in the winds of winter and the martells are destroyed to signify the coming of the long night

This is a great read on the symbolism of their house sigils. 

I don’t think the Martells will go, but the Tyrells are goners. 

[Karneol]

19 hours ago, CAllDSmith said:

But. Who. Replaces. Them. ?

Tyrells

Without the IB would either go for house Redwyne or House Hightower. One has a large fleet and the other one controlls a lot of fertile land and an very important port city. But like I said after the IB they will be too exhausted to enforce their hegemony.

I could see House Fossoway. Their a old legacy and have already marriage ties with the Tyrells and other powerful families and mostly likley wont get raided by the IB.

Dorne

I dont think the Martells get replaced. They are better accepted than the Tyrells.There is a cousin or unkle in Sunspear which could inherit Dorne