UK Politics: The Edge of Destruction

[mormont]

1 hour ago, Mosi Mynn said:

Any decision by the Prime Minister to accept a long extension to Article 50 is likely to be challenged in the UK courts.

This seems a bit crazy to me.  The EU are bending over backwards to grant longer thinking time.

The reasoning is tendentious at best, and the solution is obvious - all Parliament has to do (with or without government support, likely with) is pass a bill amending the exit date again, and/or stipulating that we will not leave until a deal has been agreed. Either would easily pass, voiding any 'legal challenge'. 

[Which Tyler]

FFS.

Conservative cabinet minister (Chloe Smith) just likened "voter fraud" to rape, because it's rare (and therefore we need voter ID, coincidentally disenfranchising immigrants, poor people, disabled and transgender people)

 

For clarity, voter fraud estimated at 1 in 1.6M votes cast, so on average 1 vote per 16 constituencies!

[Mosi Mynn]

35 minutes ago, mormont said:

tendentious 

Good word 

 

By the way, how horrible is May's day today?  PMQs (never fun, I imagine) then off to Brussels to get told she will have to have a long extension, and that the UK will no longer have a European Commissioner.

If the latter does happen, do we still take part in the EU Parliamentary elections?  Are there any other countries that have MEPs but no Commissioner?

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Participation in the EU election is not up for discussion. That's the prerequisite for the extension.

As for the No-EU commissioner, no, I think there Britain would have its new and special partnership already. I am too lazy to look for a list of EU commissioners though.

[williamjm]

The new Brexit day seems to be Halloween, which is an apt choice of date.

I'm sure we're all looking forward to repeating exactly the same discussions for the next six months.

[karaddin]

Has that actually been passed yet? Or just a date to extend to has been picked?

[Fragile Bird]

Happy Halloween, guys!

[felice]

3 hours ago, williamjm said:

The new Brexit day seems to be Halloween, which is an apt choice of date.

 

[Which Tyler]

So the new date is Halloween... Though we can leave earlier if an actual deal is passed.

May insists we can leave without hosting European elections, up until May 31st, a full week after those elections are due to take place...

The idea that it's a fudge is a bit ridiculous, it's a compromise. May could (but won't) learn a thing or two from that. Compromise means two parties starting from different points, and meeting somewhere in the middle. Demanding the complete capitulation of one side or another is really not a good way to build consensus, even if it's how both of our major parties are accustomed to acting.

As for the European elections, idencorage everyone to vote, especially the younger generation who may not know that they need to register (by May 6th) and to remember that it's proportional representation, do tactical voting is pointless. We're due to send some lame ducks for 5 months, do this can be a single-issue vote (probably should be).

If you object to the way the Conservatives have run brexit, just vote anyone-but-con.

If you object to the way labour have handled their side, vote anyone-but-lab.

If you want to remain, vote Lib Dem.

If you want to leave with no deal, vote UKIP.

We may not get a 3rd referendum, but this election will sure as hell be taken as being indicative, and will send a real message about where public opinion is - whether you vote or not.

 

[mormont]

2 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

If you want to remain, vote Lib Dem. 

Or SNP or Green or various others, where available. Any explicitly Remain-supporting party (so, not Labour).

[Mosi Mynn]

3 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

We may not get a 3rd referendum, but this election will sure as hell be taken as being indicative, and will send a real message about where public opinion is - whether you vote or not.

I think these elections could be hugely important.

UK voters have the chance to elect credible MEPs and show that we could be/want to be (some of us) committed to the EU.  The LibDems and Greens should campaign hard during these elections to give Remain a voice, however briefly heard that voice might be.

[mormont]

In theory, the Lib Dems should have been banging the drum loudly for Remain for the last three years. 

I've said before, but it bears repeating: if the Tories have been a disaster and Labour have been frustrating throughout the Brexit debacle, the Lib Dems have been a disappointment. Where are they? They're so fundamentally irrelevant that Chuka Ummuna couldn't even be bothered to take over their party, choosing instead to start his own. 

[HexMachina]

Honestly i keep forgetting the lib dems even exist. The only reason theyve gave me cause to think about them in recent years was the whole refusing to say gay sex is not sinful, or whatever it was. (Was this pre-Brexit actually?)

[Heartofice]

I'd also forget that the Lib Dems exist except that in my local area they tended to use what I regard as some slightly underhanded tactics to get my vote. 

[Mosi Mynn]

14 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Honestly i keep forgetting the lib dems even exist. The only reason theyve gave me cause to think about them in recent years was the whole refusing to say gay sex is not sinful, or whatever it was. (Was this pre-Brexit actually?)

Was that Tim Farron?  I hope it's not a party policy.

[HexMachina]

1 minute ago, Mosi Mynn said:

Was that Tim Farron?  I hope it's not a party policy.

Yes, and no its not

[Isis]

1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Honestly i keep forgetting the lib dems even exist. The only reason theyve gave me cause to think about them in recent years was the whole refusing to say gay sex is not sinful, or whatever it was. (Was this pre-Brexit actually?)

The only reason that I remember thet exist is that they occasionally email me about something to do with Brexit.

[Which Tyler]

8 hours ago, mormont said:

Or SNP or Green or various others, where available. Any explicitly Remain-supporting party (so, not Labour).

Yes but... Partly Lib Dem are the only nation-wide pro-remain party (I think, not sure about Green, for whom Brexit is a relatively minor concern); and partly that if rather not split the vote, even though it's PR

[Which Tyler]

5 hours ago, mormont said:

In theory, the Lib Dems should have been banging the drum loudly for Remain for the last three years. 

I've said before, but it bears repeating: if the Tories have been a disaster and Labour have been frustrating throughout the Brexit debacle, the Lib Dems have been a disappointment. Where are they? They're so fundamentally irrelevant that Chuka Ummuna couldn't even be bothered to take over their party, choosing instead to start his own. 

 

To be fair, I think they did need to keep their heads down on Brexit until December 2018 or so. Leave DID win, and a lot of remainers (it feels like, may just be my bias and circle) were willing to give leave a chance; then enough food to hang themselves.

Of cours Lib Dems have also still been licking their wounds from the coalition, and then Tim Farron, and kinda needed to keep their heads down and sort themselves out a bit (not that couldn't/shouldn't have done more).

I've only really come back to being a remainer (as opposed to being a reluctant leaver + 3rd referendum + bitch about May's tactics) since May's deal was released and the total fuck-up became undeniable.

Again though, that's me, so of course I think that's the way it should have been.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

10 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

So the new date is Halloween... Though we can leave earlier if an actual deal is passed.

May insists we can leave without hosting European elections, up until May 31st, a full week after those elections are due to take place...

The idea that it's a fudge is a bit ridiculous, it's a compromise. May could (but won't) learn a thing or two from that. Compromise means two parties starting from different points, and meeting somewhere in the middle. Demanding the complete capitulation of one side or another is really not a good way to build consensus, even if it's how both of our major parties are accustomed to acting.

As for the European elections, idencorage everyone to vote, especially the younger generation who may not know that they need to register (by May 6th) and to remember that it's proportional representation, do tactical voting is pointless. We're due to send some lame ducks for 5 months, do this can be a single-issue vote (probably should be).

If you object to the way the Conservatives have run brexit, just vote anyone-but-con.

If you object to the way labour have handled their side, vote anyone-but-lab.

If you want to remain, vote Lib Dem.

If you want to leave with no deal, vote UKIP.

We may not get a 3rd referendum, but this election will sure as hell be taken as being indicative, and will send a real message about where public opinion is - whether you vote or not.

 

Isn't that what I said on page 5 wrt to EU elections? (Yes, I want a cookie!).

7 hours ago, mormont said:

Or SNP or Green or various others, where available. Any explicitly Remain-supporting party (so, not Labour). 

Sinn Féin and Plaid Cymru are the other two regional parties you forgot to mention. And yes, Sinn Féin takes up their seat in the European Parliament.