Relic Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 4 hours ago, mormont said: This is exactly how the OT was done. So what? that was 40 years ago. These days its totally inexcusable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clueless Northman Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: From what I gather Lucas initially sought to make a stand alone movie and only decided on a sequel being necessary after the first movie. Indeed. Lucas explaining he always had a plan and Star Wars being just a part of it has always sounded dubious at best to me. On the other hand, he had plans once he decided to make a sequel, and considering the ending of Empire and the "Episode V" label, it's obvious he had plans for prequels and for sequels. Those plans changed with time, since it was said at the time had envisioned 9 episodes, and some rumors allege Luke would only defeat the Emperor in Ep. IX. That surely caused some issues and slight inconsitencies, but nowhere near as big as with the sequels trilogy. I assume it's mostly Disney's greed, which led them to plan for a new movie every bloody year, with Episode VII planned to be released in the very near future, that caused them to rush development of the movies without adequate planning. In a way, I'd like them not to go as nihilistic (as in "everything that happens before is of no importance, we now make our own stories") in this Episode, but I would also feel it bad form and bad writing if they try to retcon parts of TLJ (specially Rey's parentage; hopefully they'll stick to her being a nobody, and her only possible relationship to "Skywalker" would be by ending up withKylo/Ben and bringing new Skywalker Force-adept kiddies). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Rhom said: As Varys said, they literally had no plan and didn’t know it would be a trilogy. They didn't know it would be a trilogy, but they intended it to be so. That they had no plan was my point. And the fact is, tonally and in all sorts of other ways, the OT reflects the lack of a plan. Should a modern sequel trilogy have had a tighter plan? Possibly, but let's not put too much weight on that. Plans change, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argonath Diver Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Maltaran said: Pretty sure she’s jumping on to it It's a good thing she got a 12mph head start to off-set the spaceship coming at her at 250mph. Saves the ankles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 17 minutes ago, mormont said: They didn't know it would be a trilogy, but they intended it to be so. That they had no plan was my point. And the fact is, tonally and in all sorts of other ways, the OT reflects the lack of a plan. Should a modern sequel trilogy have had a tighter plan? Possibly, but let's not put too much weight on that. Plans change, after all. We aren't talking about the John Wick series here though. These aren't standalone movies, they simply cannot function on their own. Just look at Star Wars, as you already pointed out. The ending makes no sense without and Empire Strikes Back to follow it up, Vader is still alive presumably the Emperor is still alive and they had control of the galaxy before the Death Star so things still aren't won. Well, because of inadequate foresight and confidence that they'd get to make more films there are some narrative inconsistencies. And it makes sense Lucas wouldn't have been sure he'd get a sequel, his budget for the film was like a third of what a standard studio picture was spending in the seventies. Those dynamics are not in play for Disney, they don't get the "art is hard" or "plans change" pass. When you buy an intellectual property for more than the GDP of several small nation states and pour unending resources into it then things like failing to have a story to tell (TFA again doesn't work as a standalone for the exact same reasons as Star Wars) is not an unfortunate accident or oversight, you decided you didn't give a fuck. It's contempt for the audience, simply. Like George putting Jar Jar in Clones and Sith, and thinking "you'll watch it anyway you stupid cows." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 5 hours ago, mormont said: This is exactly how the OT was done. It depends which day of the week it was. Lucas's plan for Ep IV changed considerably and his story of its conception has been reported differently (by him) many times. At one point when the film came out he said he had detailed outlines for 12 movies and had started with Episode IV because it was the most practical budget-wise and the most self-contained story-wise. There may be some truth to that (he said very early on that Darth Vader was hideously scarred fighting Obi-Wan on a lava planet called Mustafa, and so it proved) but I think it was probably quite exaggerated. At other times he also said that only Episodes I-VI were planned out in detail and VII-XII were a sequel, a whole new story, that was less intimately connected. Then he dropped X-XII and said he only had nine planned, but VII-IX were very lightly sketched. Having that plan - or a plan - in place did turn out to be irrelevant though, as he completely threw out the plan for even VI (in which the Falcon is destroyed, Han dies, there's a mass Wookie uprising, and there's an assault on Coruscant where Vader dies, the Empire falls but the Emperor escapes) and replaced it with what we got. Quote Pretty sure she’s jumping on to it I think she's flipping over it to slice it in half with her lightsabre in a reverse move. Quote Also cmon, if you're complaining about physics in Star Wars NOW, your'e a bit late to the party Whilst this is (still) true, I was reminded that they did solve a major plot point in The Last Jedi exactly by deploying E=mc2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 I can't believe they have a JEDI doing a FLIP in a STAR WARS film! Lucas must be rolling in his grave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Darth Richard II said: I can't believe they have a JEDI doing a FLIP in a STAR WARS film! Lucas must be rolling in his grave! It's so she gets the high ground, which is all a Jedi ever needs. Also, no new ships I could see in that trailer? They have the updated, new A-wings from The Last Jedi, the new TIE Interceptors which (IIRC) also showed up in The Last Jedi, one of the new Star Destroyers from TFA and the Falcon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 Yeah I think they've still got a lot under wraps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 23 hours ago, Darth Richard II said: Also cmon, if you're complaining about physics in Star Wars NOW, your'e a bit late to the party. It's not so much physics as even the vaguest comprehension of size and scale that I'd quite like and Abrams clearly doesn't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 1 hour ago, polishgenius said: It's not so much physics as even the vaguest comprehension of size and scale that I'd quite like and Abrams clearly doesn't have. Abrams has no concept of how large space really is. I swear he thinks of solar systems a individual blocks and a galaxy as a big city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 6 hours ago, Argonath Diver said: It's a good thing she got a 12mph head start to off-set the spaceship coming at her at 250mph. Saves the ankles. Physics defying stunts from a magical space ninja? Colour me shocked and outraged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 3 hours ago, polishgenius said: It's not so much physics as even the vaguest comprehension of size and scale that I'd quite like and Abrams clearly doesn't have. Elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: Elaborate? Watch the Abrams Star Trek and Star Wars films. People zip around the galaxy like everything is literally next door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueMetis Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 23 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Watch the Abrams Star Trek and Star Wars films. People zip around the galaxy like everything is literally next door. Did you not see Empire? Without FTL getting to another system, even assuming they're incredibly close, would take years, centuries even. Empire shows a quick swipe to Luke training for a bit, then bam Falcon's at Cloud City. ETA: Tatooine to Alderaan is every bit as egregious. According to the map in SWTOR to get from one to the other you need travel half the galaxy. A New Hope show's it taking like 15 minutes. Writers having no sense of scale is somewhat annoying sure, but it's not new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 31 minutes ago, TrueMetis said: Did you not see Empire? Without FTL getting to another system, even assuming they're incredibly close, would take years, centuries even. Empire shows a quick swipe to Luke training for a bit, then bam Falcon's at Cloud City. ETA: Tatooine to Alderaan is every bit as egregious. According to the map in SWTOR to get from one to the other you need travel half the galaxy. A New Hope show's it taking like 15 minutes. Writers having no sense of scale is somewhat annoying sure, but it's not new. You can excuse how travel time is shown, but not the giant beam that destroyed the Hosnian system, which apparently everyone in the galaxy could see. And on the Star Trek side, that's definitely shit: why do they need ships if they can teleport across the quadrant? Does it really take just a few minutes to get from the neutral zone to Earth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durckad Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 8 hours ago, mormont said: They didn't know it would be a trilogy, but they intended it to be so. That they had no plan was my point. And the fact is, tonally and in all sorts of other ways, the OT reflects the lack of a plan. Should a modern sequel trilogy have had a tighter plan? Possibly, but let's not put too much weight on that. Plans change, after all. I would certainly hope that when a filmmaker establishes certain questions or mysteries in the first film of a planned trilogy, that they would have some idea of the answers or conclusions to them. Disney, apparently, did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 10 minutes ago, Durckad said: I would certainly hope that when a filmmaker establishes certain questions or mysteries in the first film of a planned trilogy, that they would have some idea of the answers or conclusions to them. Disney, apparently, did not. You know this having seen Episode 9 already then? How was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueMetis Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Just now, Corvinus said: You can excuse how travel time is shown, but not the giant beam that destroyed the Hosnian system, which apparently everyone in the galaxy could see. And on the Star Trek side, that's definitely shit: why do they need ships if they can teleport across the quadrant? Does it really take just a few minutes to get from the neutral zone to Earth? It's not so much an excuse, it's recognizing a flaw, but not particularly caring about it. The Falcon makes ".5 past lightspeed" which by any reading I make off it based purely on the movies, means the Falcon should come equipped with Cryopods and everyone on Alderaan would be long dead by the time the Falcon gets there even without the Death Star blowing it up. I mean I could go on for hours about the issues with the size of the "grand" army of the republic, which wouldn't be able to conquer earth with those kind of numbers let alone fight a galaxy spanning war. But while that can be a kind of fun intellectual exercise, it really doesn't matter in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durckad Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Darth Richard II said: You know this having seen Episode 9 already then? How was it? Well, seeing as they straight up admitted that there was no plan, I don't really need to speculate on this point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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