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Star Wars Thread: Don't Get Cocky

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4 minutes ago, sologdin said:

previous disaster 

very comical. it's the ninth highest grossing film of all time.

Oh don't try to argue with those people, TLJ killed the franchise and all the white males and something something SJW something Lucas vision OLD Eu not canon waaahh.

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1 hour ago, karaddin said:

Do you mean in terms of his power or his personality? Because I think one of the things TCW did best was selling why Anakin was susceptible to Palps and fell.

You think? Cause the Anakin who had no problem with stabbing that one terrorist through the back to stop him from blowing people up and they guy who struggled with cutting off Dooku's head strike me as very different people. Like I'm not saying that it would necessarily be a better ending, Clone Wars Anakin seems really quite callous, but I can't really see that Anakin listening to Palpatine's pretty obvious "I'm the evil Sith" speech's and not figuring it out. Especially as he's been exposed to the Sith so much more.

Though it does lead to a bit of an odd situation, since you've got clone wars Anakin who's got no problem offing people, then Anakin at the beginning of RoTS who struggles with the idea of killing Dooku and needs to be goaded into it by Palpatine, then at the end of the movie he's killing children with no problem. Think the guy might need a therapist or something.

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1 hour ago, Darth Richard II said:

Oh don't try to argue with those people, TLJ killed the franchise and all the white males and something something SJW something Lucas vision OLD Eu not canon waaahh.

Ohhhkaaaay, didn’t realize this was the sort of place where disliking a film earned you personal attacks. :huh:

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1 hour ago, Falconer said:

They only have one trilogy on the schedule over the next decade. They’ve had to scale their ambitions WAAY back since Johnson’s previous disaster.

Incorrect. They have two trilogies planned. Johnson's and the Weiss/Benioff project. Johnson has a small crime movie coming out in a couple of months, then he's free to start work on his films; Weiss/Benioff have to discharge final duties on Game of Thrones for HBO (including wrapping up the DVD/Blu-Ray special features and the last round of publicity duties) before they can do the same.

Most likely, they will alternate the movies, so the 2022 movie will be the D&D movie followed by the first Johnson movie in 2024 and the second D&D one in 2026 etc and in a couple of years they will extend the schedule by three films (for 2028, 2030 and 2032). What they might also do is confirm one trilogy for 22/24/26 and will then confirm the second trilogy for 23/25/27 next year or something.

The films that have been killed are the stand-alones: Boba Fett has been cancelled outright (rumours are that some ideas may have been absorbed into The Mandalorian instead) and Obi-Wan is now being redeveloped for television.

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1 hour ago, Falconer said:

Ohhhkaaaay, didn’t realize this was the sort of place where disliking a film earned you personal attacks. :huh:

Nothing personal in there. If that upsets you you really shouldn't be on the internet.

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2 hours ago, TrueMetis said:

You think? Cause the Anakin who had no problem with stabbing that one terrorist through the back to stop him from blowing people up and they guy who struggled with cutting off Dooku's head strike me as very different people. Like I'm not saying that it would necessarily be a better ending, Clone Wars Anakin seems really quite callous, but I can't really see that Anakin listening to Palpatine's pretty obvious "I'm the evil Sith" speech's and not figuring it out. Especially as he's been exposed to the Sith so much more.

Though it does lead to a bit of an odd situation, since you've got clone wars Anakin who's got no problem offing people, then Anakin at the beginning of RoTS who struggles with the idea of killing Dooku and needs to be goaded into it by Palpatine, then at the end of the movie he's killing children with no problem. Think the guy might need a therapist or something.

Ok I can definitely see the point you're making. My interpretation is that the guy he callously stabbed through the back was an active threat while Dooku had been disarmed (insert joke about hands rather than arms) and while he was sith he was also a former jedi and thus nebulously covered by a code of knighthood that Lucas had evoked. He's more human to Anakin if you will. It's a bit of a head canon to explain it away, but the issue I'd have there is in the characterisation of the movie which requires accepting the rather erratic character arc rather than the well laid out one from TCW.

The parts that I think TCW excels at it is selling both how unhealthy Anakin is in his relationship with Padme and giving him genuine reasons to mistrust the Jedi Council rather than it being an entitled tantrum. His feelings towards Padme are obsessive and controlling and while it shows him being loving, it also shows him being jealous and abusive at other times. It absolutely fits with a guy that would go too far to protect his relationship and once he's helped kill Windu he's going to feel completely trapped into that decision so he has to go all in with it - hence killing the kids.

He's also shown to be one of the Jedi that actually has issues with the way they're behaving in TCW (Yoda also gets concerned but doesn't act) and thinks that the government should be the ones in charge of the war, not an unaccountable paramilitary religious organisation, and that the Jedi are completely failing to live up to the ideals they are telling him he should aspire to and chastise him and his padawan for not following. He's not necessarily opposed to some of those actions, but he is opposed to the hypocrisy surrounding them. Finally you have the arc with Ahsoka where the council doesn't hesitate to throw his padawan under the bus at the first sign of trouble, fail to do a thorough investigation themselves and then have the gall to attempt to claim his and Ahsoka's work in clearing her name as essentially their triumph and paint it as her trial and success. Which results in probably the best scene of the series and to quote TLJ it splits Anakin to the core.

He doesn't trust the council after that, and the underhanded actions they take once the suspicion about Palpatine grows (while they are right, he is) simply serve to prove to Anakin that they can't be trusted. Sith or not, Palpatine is the democratic head of state and Windu does attempt a coup against him. We the audience knows what he becomes, but to an Anakin that has gone through everything TCW Anakin has then all he is seeing is his supposed comrades completely casting aside their principles while assuring him that he can really trust them and all Sith are bad while trying to kill the President who just happens to be the only person to have told Anakin his feelings are OK to have.

And then once he finds out "well actually despite their failures to live up to their ideals, the Jedi were right and Palps is evil" he decides he's trapped and goes full space Nazi. So there is that.

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1 minute ago, Darth Richard II said:

I wouldn't say he "struggled" with killing Dooku. He thinks about ti for maybe 3 seconds.

I think the one struggling in that scene was Hayden having to comply with Lucas's directions for how to act it. I don't actually remember if that is one of the particularly bad ones but couldn't pass up the cheap shot.

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5 hours ago, Werthead said:

Incorrect. They have two trilogies planned. Johnson's and the Weiss/Benioff project. Johnson has a small crime movie coming out in a couple of months, then he's free to start work on his films; Weiss/Benioff have to discharge final duties on Game of Thrones for HBO (including wrapping up the DVD/Blu-Ray special features and the last round of publicity duties) before they can do the same.

Most likely, they will alternate the movies, so the 2022 movie will be the D&D movie followed by the first Johnson movie in 2024 and the second D&D one in 2026 etc and in a couple of years they will extend the schedule by three films (for 2028, 2030 and 2032). What they might also do is confirm one trilogy for 22/24/26 and will then confirm the second trilogy for 23/25/27 next year or something.

The films that have been killed are the stand-alones: Boba Fett has been cancelled outright (rumours are that some ideas may have been absorbed into The Mandalorian instead) and Obi-Wan is now being redeveloped for television.

Are you sure about the alternating release schedule? Unless rian wants to squeeze independent films in between movies that's an 8 year+ commitment. That said b&w having to wait until 2026 for their first film seems too long too. It's an odd schedule to be honest for two SW franchises to be running alongside each other. Feels a bit like Disney have had to incorporate avatar into their release schedule and that they have got incredibly cold feet at the idea of ever releasing star wars outside of December. The only part of the april/may release that punished the solo film was the fact last jedi was releases in the december before it. That's clearly too quick for the franchise at the current time. 

 

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I would have thought an alternating 2 year schedule would make more sense going

D&D1: 2022, RJ1: 2023, D&D2: 2023, RJ2: 2024. 4 years between instalments in the same series seems like too long for a franchise that rides the hype train.

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4 hours ago, karaddin said:

I would have thought an alternating 2 year schedule would make more sense going

D&D1: 2022, RJ1: 2023, D&D2: 2023, RJ2: 2024. 4 years between instalments in the same series seems like too long for a franchise that rides the hype train.

This makes sense to me too but the schedule doesn't fit. So back to it being to long for a series to complete or too long to wait for one to start.

5 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

I believe they said at the time it was announced Rian was only going to be definitely directing the first in his trilogy. 

I guess a lot of issues can be circumvented if they aren't one big story and just 3 films featuring the same characters. A bit like GOTG or most of the MCU trilogies TBH.

Disney must be hoping the avatar sequels can replicate the success of the original to tangle their release schedule up. I'm not convinced unless cameron has concocted a new technology that captures the imagination/gimmick of the first film.

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42 minutes ago, red snow said:

Disney must be hoping the avatar sequels can replicate the success of the original to tangle their release schedule up. I'm not convinced unless cameron has concocted a new technology that captures the imagination/gimmick of the first film.

The Avatar sequels may wind up being one of the greatest flops of all time, but that's what a fair amount of people thought about the original and then it wound up being the highest grossing film ever. Cameron has never had a flop and never had a movie review poorly (either with critics or the public), I suspect the Avatar movies will makes tons of money for Disney.

Though the question remains just how expensive have the 10+ years to make them been and just how crazy how a box office take is needed to turn a profit that makes it worthwhile.

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8 hours ago, red snow said:

Are you sure about the alternating release schedule? Unless rian wants to squeeze independent films in between movies that's an 8 year+ commitment. That said b&w having to wait until 2026 for their first film seems too long too. It's an odd schedule to be honest for two SW franchises to be running alongside each other. Feels a bit like Disney have had to incorporate avatar into their release schedule and that they have got incredibly cold feet at the idea of ever releasing star wars outside of December. The only part of the april/may release that punished the solo film was the fact last jedi was releases in the december before it. That's clearly too quick for the franchise at the current time. 

 

Well, either they announce more films later on, confirming SW on a one-film-per-year schedule, or the trilogies alternate instalments, or someone (Rian or D&D) has to wait until 2028 before their first film comes out, which is weird. Both D&D and RJ have said they are starting work on their Star Wars projects as soon as their current commitments wrap up.

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12 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Well, either they announce more films later on, confirming SW on a one-film-per-year schedule, or the trilogies alternate instalments, or someone (Rian or D&D) has to wait until 2028 before their first film comes out, which is weird. Both D&D and RJ have said they are starting work on their Star Wars projects as soon as their current commitments wrap up.

Maybe further announcements would clarify. It's not you with the headscratching schedule it's just both options seem unwieldy with the current info they have provided

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3 hours ago, red snow said:

This makes sense to me too but the schedule doesn't fit. So back to it being to long for a series to complete or too long to wait for one to start.

I meant to say that I was operating on the assumption that the schedule had only been done for one trilogy so far, that when the details firmed on the second then the schedule would be updated with those added in.

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1 hour ago, karaddin said:

I meant to say that I was operating on the assumption that the schedule had only been done for one trilogy so far, that when the details firmed on the second then the schedule would be updated with those added in.

That makes sense eg D&B one too early in planning stages to be even announced. Although 5 films and one trilogy doesn't add up. Not that 5 and 2 does either :)

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6 hours ago, Fez said:

The Avatar sequels may wind up being one of the greatest flops of all time, but that's what a fair amount of people thought about the original and then it wound up being the highest grossing film ever. Cameron has never had a flop and never had a movie review poorly (either with critics or the public), I suspect the Avatar movies will makes tons of money for Disney.

Though the question remains just how expensive have the 10+ years to make them been and just how crazy how a box office take is needed to turn a profit that makes it worthwhile.

The Abyss flopped at the BO and was kind of panned by critics.

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