Star Wars Thread: Don't Get Cocky

[Astromech]

Haha, yeah she's been in some pretty terrible films since she gave up MMA and focused on Hollywood. It's odd seeing her name included with the rest of the cast.

[karaddin]

11 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

...does anyone in here besides me and @HelenaExMachina actually even like Star Wars?

Can't believe you left me out!

I did watch the teaser in the end and I'm sure I'll watch it and enjoy the heck out of it still. I used to think I was a more discerning viewer than my brother who just goes in wanting to love everything he watches, after a while I realised he's a lot happier/enjoys his movies more than me so now I try do the same. Most things can be overlooked when you're watching with that mindset.

I'm just disappointed that the odds of Ahsoka turning up have gone from tiny to miniscule, I want more Ahsoka!

[Corvinus85]

12 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

...does anyone in here besides me and @HelenaExMachina actually even like Star Wars?

Hey, some of us are just willing to give it some tough love, now and then. 

[Kalbear]

Well, I really liked it. I am amused that they went from "Let the past die, kill it if you have to" to "HERE IS A DEATH STAR AND TATTOOINE AND THE EMPEROR AND LUKE AND NOTHING REALLY DIES". Mostly I chalk that up to Kylo Ren being just wrong wrong wrong. 

Rey as a clone of Anakin would be stupid, but it's gaining traction as a plausible theory. (alternately, she could be a clone of Shmi, who was absurdly strong with the force and no one knew it). 

I'm falling more for the theory that Snoke was possessed by the Emperor. It explains why the First Order is so, well, Empire-y, how Snoke came out of nowhere, why he has such a hard on for Vader and Skywalker and whatnot, why he wanted to turn Ren so badly, etc. SWTOR even has precedence for this with the Eternal Empire and their version of force ghosts. 

 

[karaddin]

Surely the Emperor would have been contemptuous of Vader given how things turned out rather than being in awe of him which is how Snoke seemed to be? I'm sure our local Darth Sidious is at least.

[Corvinus85]

Watching the Mandalorian panel, and disappointingly they didn't show the teaser on livestream. I guess we'll have to wait a bit more.

[Kalbear]

37 minutes ago, karaddin said:

Surely the Emperor would have been contemptuous of Vader given how things turned out rather than being in awe of him which is how Snoke seemed to be? I'm sure our local Darth Sidious is at least.

I don't think he would, or rather I don't think that he'd be as pissed enough about it to overcome his desire for something powerful. Him killing Luke? Yeah, I can see that. But wanting another Skywalker in this thrall? Oh yeah, he'd love that.

[Varysblackfyre321]

57 minutes ago, karaddin said:

Surely the Emperor would have been contemptuous of Vader given how things turned out rather than being in awe of him which is how Snoke seemed to be? I'm sure our local Darth Sidious is at least.

Meh, I mean Sideous did always think Vader would surpass in power. They’re both Sith so it’s not like either of them would be shocked at betrayal-one of them would eventually kill the order, it’d like being angry at the sun for being bright and hot. But even if Sidious hated Vader, so what? It wouldn’t be the first time he feigned respect for something to get his way. Kylo compares himself to Vader. Snoke/palps, would simply be using Ren’s insecurities to motivate the man.

[Corvinus85]

I really don't think Palpatine is going to be revealed as the mastermind behind it all. He'll be a ghost haunting that remnant of the Death Star. Isn't it canon that Sith don't know how to join with the force like the most Jedi learned to do, and become force ghosts? However, at the same time we've seen Darth Bane still haunting his tomb in the Clone Wars series, so I think it will be the same with Palpatine. Maybe a bit more than that, since Palpatine learned from Plagueis a lot about the force.

[Kalbear]

14 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

I really don't think Palpatine is going to be revealed as the mastermind behind it all. He'll be a ghost haunting that remnant of the Death Star. Isn't it canon that Sith don't know how to join with the force like the most Jedi learned to do, and become force ghosts?

No. It's vaguely canon that the Jedi just learned about it again recently through Qui-Gonn teaching Yoda and Obi-Wan. Beyond that? No real idea what is and isn't canon.

Except, in STWOR, there's literally a guy who has possessed force users and been around for like a thousand years. And he isn't Jedi or Sith. 

14 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

However, at the same time we've seen Darth Bane still haunting his tomb in the Clone Wars series, so I think it will be the same with Palpatine. Maybe a bit more than that, since Palpatine learned from Plagueis a lot about the force.

Yeah, there's lots of that around too. I'm sure there's something like that in Rebels, too. 

[polishgenius]

The Mandalorian looks sweeeeeeeeeeet.

[HexMachina]

6 hours ago, Toth said:

So much I have to agree with in these last posts. To this day I haven't seen any of the new Star Wars movies myself, basically just watching this cynical lazy cashgrab play out from afar.

I might add another complaint: This new trilogy's utter contempt for necessary world-building. They didn't just undo everything accomplished in the original trilogy to return to ANH's status quo, they did it and gave us barely any scraps of information how this happened. The original trilogy may have been a classic fantasy journey, but it set up a world that oozed history. The first movie already name-dropped the Republic, the Senate, the Clone Wars, Palpatine's takeover and hinted at a world where Jedi were the peacekeepers of the galaxy. The world introduced had a history that leads up until the point where Luke's journey begun. The prequel trilogy may have had shoddy writing, but at least it had just as much terrific world-building. They took the events mentioned in the original trilogy and built a living and breathing world around them. That's something I reveled in to this day, because such solid world-building allows you to craft every kind of story around it, just as much as the EU gave us the Old Republic, fleshed out every silly looking background character and gave us an awesome and in-depth look on the political landscape after the fall of the Empire (despite some misses among the hits, but that's the usual risk) until it all got moved into the Legends by Disney.

The new trilogy has nothing of this. It hit the reset button and had the balls to ask its viewers to figure out what had happened in the meantime because the writers couldn't be arsed to this day to give us a coherent answer. Every review I have seen makes it looks like the setting is an absolute void where nothing beyond the immediate vicinity of its protagonists is allowed to exist. It's not a living and breathing world, it's just a cardboard background piece that is supposed to cynically evoke as much nostalgia as possible. It takes place in an alternate universe, that's how it looks to me.

Should probably not criticise something you admit you haven't even seen

[HexMachina]

2 hours ago, Corvinus said:

I really don't think Palpatine is going to be revealed as the mastermind behind it all. He'll be a ghost haunting that remnant of the Death Star. Isn't it canon that Sith don't know how to join with the force like the most Jedi learned to do, and become force ghosts? However, at the same time we've seen Darth Bane still haunting his tomb in the Clone Wars series, so I think it will be the same with Palpatine. Maybe a bit more than that, since Palpatine learned from Plagueis a lot about the force.

Yep, my thoughts too. Really doubt he is the mastermind behind it all. I'm torn between the ideas that:

1) Rey seeks him out because she realises she needs to know both light and dark to strike a balance.

2) The group is salvaging something from the DS wreckage and Palps surprises them as a force ghost.

I lean more towards the former than the latter.

I imagine that whatever the cause of the encounter, he will undoubtedly deliver a cackling seductive dark side speech (I love Ian mcdarmid)

[polishgenius]

10 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Should probably not criticise something you admit you haven't even seen 

 

To be fair, he's not actually wrong that the worldbuilding is bad (and completely undoes the triumph of the end of the OP, essentially), but yeah, that was quite an odd post.

I mean, the stage was set for some nuanced building of the brave new world, trying to re-establish the Jedi, and dealing with the remains of the Empire but in a new way (bit like the EU did at least in points, like in the Thrawn trilogy) but no, he just wanted to do the Empire vs the Rebels again. The Imperial Remnant was a far more interesting idea than the New Order. Ultimately I like the new films but the worldbuilding is bad.

And moving Thrawn to before the OT was a mistaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake.

[Guest]

On 4/13/2019 at 8:10 AM, Relic said:

You guys know what i do when i want to jump over a tie fighter? I turn my back and run. 

Honestly, as soon as she started running, activated lightsaber in hand, the only thing running through my mind the whole time was: "You'll put your eye out, kid!"

[Corvinus85]

6 hours ago, Toth said:

So much I have to agree with in these last posts. To this day I haven't seen any of the new Star Wars movies myself, basically just watching this cynical lazy cashgrab play out from afar.

I might add another complaint: This new trilogy's utter contempt for necessary world-building. They didn't just undo everything accomplished in the original trilogy to return to ANH's status quo, they did it and gave us barely any scraps of information how this happened. The original trilogy may have been a classic fantasy journey, but it set up a world that oozed history. The first movie already name-dropped the Republic, the Senate, the Clone Wars, Palpatine's takeover and hinted at a world where Jedi were the peacekeepers of the galaxy. The world introduced had a history that leads up until the point where Luke's journey begun. The prequel trilogy may have had shoddy writing, but at least it had just as much terrific world-building. They took the events mentioned in the original trilogy and built a living and breathing world around them. That's something I reveled in to this day, because such solid world-building allows you to craft every kind of story around it, just as much as the EU gave us the Old Republic, fleshed out every silly looking background character and gave us an awesome and in-depth look on the political landscape after the fall of the Empire (despite some misses among the hits, but that's the usual risk) until it all got moved into the Legends by Disney.

The new trilogy has nothing of this. It hit the reset button and had the balls to ask its viewers to figure out what had happened in the meantime because the writers couldn't be arsed to this day to give us a coherent answer. Every review I have seen makes it looks like the setting is an absolute void where nothing beyond the immediate vicinity of its protagonists is allowed to exist. It's not a living and breathing world, it's just a cardboard background piece that is supposed to cynically evoke as much nostalgia as possible. It takes place in an alternate universe, that's how it looks to me.

You're not wrong when it comes to the movies themselves.

A world has been or is being built, but not entirely in the movies. Novels, video games, the most recent animated series, and I believe comic books have been released aplenty since Disney took over. Some of them tell what happened right after RoTJ, others are closer to the new trilogy. Unfortunately, not everyone can keep up with all this media, and the movies shouldn't have to stand on all these. Also, not everything released is good. For example, I'd avoid reading Chuck Wending's godawful trilogy that takes place right after RotJ, despite being one of the most critical novel series in terms of showing what happened afterwards.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

...does anyone in here besides me and @HelenaExMachina actually even like Star Wars?

I love Star Wars. I'm one of the few who think that TLJ was superior to TFA, Canto Bight sequence and all.

I just didn't love the teaser, and I desperately hope that it's not JJ capitulating to the incel SOBs by erasing everything RJ did, and especially hope that the title isn't a return to the "only Skywalkers can be The Special" mindset that RJ did away with.

I suspect that the teaser and title is just JJ trying to fake everyone out, and that he's going in a direction more consistent with where RJ left off in TLJ, but I just really noticed how my reaction to this teaser was so much different than my reactions to TFA and TLJ teasers.

[Darth Richard II]

Ok so there are like 5 or 6 of us. We should start a club!

[Jaxom 1974]

37 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Should probably not criticise something you admit you haven't even seen

A fair point. 

However, the criticism isn't wrong.  It couldn't be more spot on. 

[felice]

7 hours ago, sifth said:

Logically shouldn't we have gotten at least one movie of relative peace before building up to the next major conflict?

Well, they should have established the New Republic as something worth fighting to protect, anyway. Sticking with the same basic story, I think the first film should have focused on Snoke's efforts to undermine the Republic and turn Ben. End with Rey finding Luke in exile, but just after he gets there, not years later. Then bring in the Starkiller* and the First Order declaring all out war against the New Republic for the second film, and set everything up for Rise of Skywalker.

* but make it a hyperspace weapon that can take out enemy ships anywhere in the galaxy, rather than yet another planet-destroyer, so it doesn't rely on every single New Republic ship in the galaxy being gathered together in the same place for no good reason.

19 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

And moving Thrawn to before the OT was a mistaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake.

Thrawn was always a Grand Admiral before the OT; I don't see a problem with showing some of his pre-Heir career.