US Politics: Celebrating and despairing too early;No poll bump for Trump yet.

[Larry of the Lawn]

37 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I certainly hope not. If Trump goes Dutchman who knows what kind of escalation that could be perceived as. Don't pick fights we can't Win... ston.

*slow, laconic clapping*

[DMC]

3 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I love ya buddy. This is exactly what I was trying to get at and failing to do so last night. You have entirely logical arguments to back up your entirely logical statements. 

You could be entirely right, 100%. But we aren't in a world where things like facts or logic matter anymore politically. Full stop. 

This - and all of this post - is really nice to me and I right back atcha.  But I'm drunk and the Yankees lost again so I'm going to be mean in the next few sentences, I think you can take it: 

I honestly don't know how to respond to this anymore.  For about the past year you've been Nihilistic Jace, which is fine.  I've never really bothered you about it but I also don't go to your place of work and knock the hotdog out of your hand.  But if you want to (re)enter the realm of reasonable adults, then yeah, logic and soundly interpreting data is a big part of it.  You can't concurrently say facts or logic don't matter anymore while also taking an opinion on anything.  If facts and logic don't matter anymore, then it's just a matter of how many members of Congress for each party there are, or who the president is, or the partisan leans of SCOTUS members.  There's absolutely no point to discuss anything.  So either go back to cutting off some poor chick's toe or make substantive arguments.

3 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

So when you get up in front of the chalk board

Nobody has chalk boards anymore.

3 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

So really, it is not logical at all to expect Republicans to become a party willing to return to the table. Doing so directly harms their interests.

There are plenty of examples of the GOP passing low salience bipartisan bills, even during Trump's administration.  You, and loki, are wrong to think otherwise.

3 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

And while I know you haven't been saying "Republicans will return to the table" exactly, all of your prognostications seem to treat it as a given.

No, that's not what I'm saying.  I'm saying they never left the table to begin with, at a certain point.  But at the same time, at a high salience level, no, they're never going to return to the table.  I've been saying that since before it was cool.

3 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Eta: Missing period

Keep it!

[DMC]

The current racist attacks directed towards Ilhan Omar are inarguably disgusting, and why every Jewish American should support her in spite of any objections to her past comments.  It's the people attacking her that are the plain threat to any minority.

[ThinkerX]

6 hours ago, Martell Spy said:

Trump threatens to send undocumented immigrants to sanctuary cities

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/12/trump-undocumented-immigrants-sanctuary-cities-1272745

Elsewhere, I have been coming across comments suggesting state/city governments might be able to enact a '10th Amendment Solution' to this.  Claim goes that by simply dumping the immigrants, the federal government is abandoning its responsibilities, hence opening that door.  Might be interesting were some state to try it...

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, ThinkerX said:

Elsewhere, I have been coming across comments suggesting state/city governments might be able to enact a '10th Amendment Solution' to this.  Claim goes that by simply dumping the immigrants, the federal government is abandoning its responsibilities, hence opening that door.  Might be interesting were some state to try it...

I don't know why you consistently give random internet comments credence, but no, there's no "10th amendment solution."  That's a bullshit solution to a bullshit threat - Trump has no ability to direct undocumented workers to sanctuary cities, he's just talking out his ass, as per usual.

[Serious Callers Only]

^ still thinks rules matter in fascism

[DMC]

Or maybe I just know how the government works.  I mean, seriously, let's say you could convince agencies to release undocumented workers in such cities, how exactly are you going to ensure they stay there?  That's one of many plainly obvious problems that makes it clear it's an empty threat.

[Rippounet]

On 4/12/2019 at 9:55 AM, DMC said:

I've read and researched more about American politics, generally, than almost certainly anyone reading this. 

Ha ha, I will take you at your word and use you then: what are the top 10 (or 15, or 20) books on modern American politics that you would recommend?

[DMC]

44 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

what are the top 10 (or 15, or 20) books on modern American politics that you would recommend?

Oh, geez, off the top of my head drunk at 5:30 in the morning:

1. Neustadt, Presidential Power and the Modern Presidents, 1960
2. Mayhew, Congress: The Electoral Connection, 1974
3. Fenno, Home Style, 1978
4. Wilson, Bureaucracy, 1989
5. Edwards, At The Margins, 1990
6. Bond & Fleisher, The President in the Legislative Arena, 1990
7. Converse, The Nature of Belief Systems in Mass Publics, 1964*
8. Krehbiel, Pivotal Politics, 1998
9. Epstein & O'Halloran, Delegating Powers, 1999#
10. Cox & McCubbins, Setting the Agenda, 2004 
11. Lee, Beyond Ideology, 2009
12. Beckmann, Pushing the Agenda, 2012

I could go on, and I feel like I'm missing some, but I want a cigarette.  There was somewhat of the same question for my comps, so I even have a prepared answer if I took some time.  But just PM me if you're legitimately interested.

*That's not a book, but is THE most important work on political behavior.  Ever.  #David Epstein admitted to at least a three year sexual relationship with his own daughter.  Seriously.  I hate the fact that book is as important to my work as it is.

[Rippounet]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

I could go on, and I feel like I'm missing some, but I want a cigarette.  There was somewhat of the same question for my comps, so I even have a prepared answer if I took some time.  But just PM me if you're legitimately interested.

I'm always looking for good bibliographies and thought it would be on topic, thanks.

Will PM you later, but right now I need to prepare for drinks myself.

[KingintheNorth4]

8 hours ago, DMC said:

The current racist attacks directed towards Ilhan Omar are inarguably disgusting, and why every Jewish American should support her in spite of any objections to her past comments.  It's the people attacking her that are the plain threat to any minority.

Yeah, it makes me worry for her safety.

[Zorral]

2 hours ago, KingintheNorth4 said:

Yeah, it makes me worry for her safety.

Not only her safety.  The fascists are threatening everyone with retribution, and not subtly either.  For example, hear Mnuchin do it to Maxine Waters a couple of days ago:

https://forward.com/fast-forward/422416/watch-maxine-waters-steve-mnuchin/

[Martell Spy]

10 hours ago, DMC said:

Or maybe I just know how the government works.  I mean, seriously, let's say you could convince agencies to release undocumented workers in such cities, how exactly are you going to ensure they stay there?  That's one of many plainly obvious problems that makes it clear it's an empty threat.

He will keep them in with walls.

[Varysblackfyre321]

On 4/11/2019 at 5:18 PM, Martell Spy said:

Pete Buttigieg Is Not “Feuding” With Mike Pence
He’s reminding everyone of the vice president’s cruelty.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/04/pete-buttigieg-mike-pence-feud-marriage-equality-lgbtq.html

 

Mike Pence: Gods hates gays and I want to deny gays basic rights, and perhaps forcefully correct them.

Butteigieg: I don’t think god hates gays, and I’d rather you not deny me and other members of the LGBTQ community our rights sir.

A lot of Evangelicals: My god how offensive, is this gay! He won’t respect/accept our belief that he is subhuman. Clearly he’s just doing this for some attention This is persecution.

[Martell Spy]

Quote

 

It’s not just abortion legislation that’s getting increasingly extreme. The anti-abortion movement itself appears to be taking more cues from its far-right fringes—groups that reject the term pro-life and call themselves “abortion abolitionists” instead. Abortion abolitionists prize ideological purity over incremental wins. They fight, for instance, against the exceptions for cases of rape and incest that make anti-abortion bills palatable for more moderate voters. Using quotes from Martin Luther King Jr. and the language of the antislavery and civil rights movements, abolitionists carry the primary argument of the anti-abortion movement—that abortion is the murder of a human being—to its logical conclusion: that abortion should be prosecuted as homicide.

Earlier this week, hundreds of abortion abolitionists testified in favor of a Texas bill that would classify all abortions as homicide and remove the line in the Texas penal code that exempts women from being charged with murder after getting an abortion. If the bill passes, women who get abortions could be eligible for capital punishment.

According to anti-abortion activists, this was the first time a total, no-exceptions abortion ban that would treat the procedure as homicide has gotten a legislative hearing in the U.S. Though the bill is unlikely to pass, the fact that Republican leaders in the Texas Legislature decided to grant it a hearing and allowed more than 400 people to testify in favor of treating abortion-seeking women like murderers marks a shocking shift in the party’s public rhetoric.

 

The Terrifying Rise of the Abortion Abolition Movement
How the far right became the center of the anti-abortion movement.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/04/six-week-abortion-bans-heartbeat-bills.html

[Serious Callers Only]

Republicans enacting their 'pro-cancer' policy: https://trofire.com/2019/04/09/inspector-general-says-epa-is-lying-to-the-public-about-toxic-chemicals/

Eagle cry of dollars saved ('since they're never going to get healthcare it doesn't even matter', captain planet villain is reported to have said when reporting to his boss Don Trump).

Quote

In an incredibly rare and alarming move, the Inspector General of the EPA has had to issue a "Management alert" stating that the EPA's information about certain toxic chemicals is inaccurate.

Terrifying news out of the EPA yesterday when the EPA's own inspector general was forced to issue a management alert telling the agency that they're literally lying to the American public about the dangers of toxic chemicals that we are exposed to.

Now, before I get into the issue, I just want to reiterate that the inspector general of the EPA had to issue a warning to their own agency because they're lying about our exposure to toxic cancer causing chemicals on a daily basis.

 

Anyway, real source https://www.epa.gov/office-inspector-general/report-management-alert-certain-toxic-release-inventory-data-disclosed

Quote

 

We examined the EPA’s public [Toxic Release Inventory] release data and the impact of the data on the agency’s annual TRI National Analysis. During our review, the OIG identified discrepancies between (1) the total pounds of chemicals released to the environment as reported in the publicly available TRI data for reporting years 2013–2017 and (2) the information that the EPA provided to us separately on the total pounds of chemicals released.

The OIG’s identification of these discrepancies led to the EPA’s discovery that total release calculations provided by the publicly available database do not properly include the [Publicly Owned Treatment Work] release amounts.The effect for those that query these data, including nearby communities or worldwide researchers, is that they will not always have accurate or consistent information regarding releases of the hazardous substances from POTWs that may significantly impact human health and the environment.

 

Looks like someone doesn't want to be a fall guy instead of remaining quiet. A job is a job, but a prison sentence is a prison sentence i guess.

[ThinkerX]

Disturbing.  Wonder how long before they'd start arresting purported heretics and non-Christians?  

 

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2017/04/alabama-senate-oks-fundamentalist-christian-church-police-force/?fbclid=IwAR1fM7nu8sj-pVS9YJhK47Xb-CpEfsMboKnhIT77Fwu40eZs-JpeveIVx88

Theocracy alert: A large fundamentalist Christian church in Alabama is set to have its very own police force. Say “Hello” to the American Taliban.

The Associated Press reports:

The Alabama Senate has voted to allow a church to form its own police force.

Lawmakers on Tuesday voted 24-4 to allow Briarwood Presbyterian Church in Birmingham to establish a law enforcement department.

The church says it needs its own police officers to keep its school as well as its more than 4,000 person congregation safe.

[TrueMetis]

There's no fucking way that's constitutional.

[Durckad]

27 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

There's no fucking way that's constitutional.

Well, just as long as it's CHRISTIAN then it should be fine.

[Gertrude]

Faith Militant is the first thing to cross my mind when reading this.

But honestly, if a school can do it, why not a mega-church? As long as all places of worship that apply and meet the requirements are allowed the same privilege. I don't get why this is seemingly different than a college campus - being called a separate police force and needing a vote. The article is a sparse on the details.