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HelenaExMachina

The First Law Re-Read Volume II - rereads are a dish best served cold

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5 hours ago, Rhom said:

And old.  And a failure.  And betrayed.

Had a lot of sympathy for old Cosca in BSC. It disappeared in RC though.

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Cosca will be very difficult to cast if it ever gets made into a TV show. Having such an extravagant arsehole be sympathetic will take take some acting chops. 

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27 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Cosca will be very difficult to cast if it ever gets made into a TV show. Having such an extravagant arsehole be sympathetic will take take some acting chops. 

I always pictured him being played by the actor who played Doran in AGOT.

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I loved the scene in Cardotti’s. Oh and the bank. Damnit i can’t wait to reach BSC

 

LAOK - how the hell did i forget who Pike was? :rolleyes: I had remembered Rews appeared again somewhere but couldnt recall where.

1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I always pictured him being played by the actor who played Doran in AGOT.

Alexander Siddig and that sounds like a terrible casting decision. Even just picking from the pool of GoT actors, I would say Pedro Pascal would be a far better Cosca. But i agree with BFC it would be a difficult role to fill

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2 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I always pictured him being played by the actor who played Doran in AGOT.

Siddig is a good shout.

On TV adaptations i still haven't really encountered anything that would be impossible for tv on a vikings/last kingdom budget. However I'm just reaching the battles in laok.

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7 minutes ago, red snow said:

Siddig is a good shout.

He is good, but he'll forever be Dr Bashir for me....

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On 5/14/2019 at 9:49 PM, red snow said:

Lol. I loved the bit where he couldn't even simply say "yes" when Glokta spelled out how he wanted short, succinct answers from him.

I'm remembering why i enjoyed book 3 so much - it's already kicking things off in the opening third of the book with a big battle and jezal becoming king. 

Crummock is brilliant, i don't know how i forgot the scene where he told them the hill was where some historical figure made their last stand and then told them of his horrific defeat. Isn't their speculation crummock's daughter is in the new series? If so she has already been set up well as she's definitely feisty and strong willed.

So, do we think bayaz poisoned/killed the king? Can't see how it was a coincidence he died at that very point.

Crummock is hilarious.  This was how he was trying to inspire them to fight huge odds.

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4 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Cosca will be very difficult to cast if it ever gets made into a TV show. Having such an extravagant arsehole be sympathetic will take take some acting chops. 

Cosca comes over as a loveable rogue in TFL and BSC.  But, he's a complete shit in RC.

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3 hours ago, SeanF said:

Crummock is hilarious.  This was how he was trying to inspire them to fight huge odds.

The humour is really clicking for me in book 3. I also enjoyed how West tells Paulder and Kroy pretty much the same thing one after the other to get them in line. And Jezal's drunken tantrum.

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16 minutes ago, red snow said:

The humour is really clicking for me in book 3. I also enjoyed how West tells Paulder and Kroy pretty much the same thing one after the other to get them in line. And Jezal's drunken tantrum.

After watching the latest episode of Game of Thrones, I imagined a meeting between Cosca and Daenerys "I love what you've done with your city, your Grace.  Very.....apocalyptic.  "

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Posted (edited)
On 5/14/2019 at 2:49 PM, red snow said:

Lol. I loved the bit where he couldn't even simply say "yes" when Glokta spelled out how he wanted short, succinct answers from him.

I'm remembering why i enjoyed book 3 so much - it's already kicking things off in the opening third of the book with a big battle and jezal becoming king. 

Crummock is brilliant, i don't know how i forgot the scene where he told them the hill was where some historical figure made their last stand and then told them of his horrific defeat. Isn't their speculation crummock's daughter is in the new series? If so she has already been set up well as she's definitely feisty and strong willed.

So, do we think bayaz poisoned/killed the king? Can't see how it was a coincidence he died at that very point.

Sounds like you're right about where I am in the reread.  I'm just starting the battle in the mountains - felt really bad reading Crummock telling his children how dangerous it is being in the presence of the Bloody-Nine.

ETA: can't wait to see what Isern's up to as an adult.  She was Crummock's favorite after all.

 

21 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I always pictured him being played by the actor who played Bashir in DS9.

Fixed.  And I think that would be fantastic.  He definitely can handle playing a brash, arrogant, bit of a dick character. 

 

19 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Alexander Siddig and that sounds like a terrible casting decision. Even just picking from the pool of GoT actors, I would say Pedro Pascal would be a far better Cosca. But i agree with BFC it would be a difficult role to fill

But, yeah, Pascal would be better.  Although, I don't think he'll be available, being busy as Viper Fett and all.

Edited by RedEyedGhost

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5 hours ago, RedEyedGhost said:

Sounds like you're right about where I am in the reread.  I'm just starting the battle in the mountains - felt really bad reading Crummock telling his children how dangerous it is being in the presence of the Bloody-Nine.

ETA: can't wait to see what Isern's up to as an adult.  She was Crummock's favorite after all.

 

Fixed.  And I think that would be fantastic.  He definitely can handle playing a brash, arrogant, bit of a dick character. 

 

But, yeah, Pascal would be better.  Although, I don't think he'll be available, being busy as Viper Fett and all.

I also thought cosca was already fairly old when he appears? Pedro Pascal still feels a bit on the young side for the character.

Crummock telling everyone the people who died in the first wave of attack were lucky as someone will bury them is another example of his great motivational speeches. The other hill people must be as crazy as him to have had him lead them so long.

Interesting how crummock seems to know more than most about the witch and connection with shanka. Might explain how is daughter appears to be tied up with someone with similar powers eg there's a connection between hill People and the witch?

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1 hour ago, red snow said:

I also thought cosca was already fairly old when he appears? Pedro Pascal still feels a bit on the young side for the character.

Crummock telling everyone the people who died in the first wave of attack were lucky as someone will bury them is another example of his great motivational speeches. The other hill people must be as crazy as him to have had him lead them so long.

Interesting how crummock seems to know more than most about the witch and connection with shanka. Might explain how is daughter appears to be tied up with someone with similar powers eg there's a connection between hill People and the witch?

Not to mention Crummock telling his daughter that watching the Bloody Nine slaughtering everything in sight "What a thing of beauty that would be" or commenting to the Dogman "They say you can see all the beauty of the world in the way that a hanged man swings."  Not for the first time, the Dogman is thinking "What the hell have I let myself in for?"

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Posted (edited)

To be fair to all of those Crummock quotes, non comes close to 'I've got other sons' line when confronting Logan. 

Pascal is far too young, thin and handsome for Cosca. 

Edited by BigFatCoward

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6 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

To be fair to all of those Crummock quotes, non comes close to 'I've got other sons' line when confronting Logan. 

Pascal is far too young, thin and handsome for Cosca. 

It was pretty chilling before the fight when logen told bethod's man "I'll keep an eye out for your sons". Logen may be pretending to be terrifying to have an edge if you pretend long enough it simply becomes who you are. Makes me wonder how much of the B9 days were him simply playing the character in which case he's more culpable than i often credit him for. I'm usually a b9 made him do it person.

I just read a scene with bremer meeting with jezal and he mentions how things didn't work out with lord brock? Was this explained in the heroes? Felt like it could have been hinting at his drinking or obsession with brock's daughter in law.

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Rereading these in 2019 makes me think Joe was waaaayyyyyy ahead of the curve, and Logen is a masterful commentary on toxic masculinity.  I still think the Bloody-Nine is a spirit, but Logen in his head is so different from the Logen that interacts with others (especially the northmen) and nearly every time he's an absolute shit, he thinks about what his father would have told him or thought about the situation.  

All of Crummock's talk about the moon (and how the Bloody-Nine is beloved of the moon), makes me wonder if he's able to talk to spirits too, or just what the hell's going on there.  If it's explained, I have forgotten it, and will be happy to rediscover it.

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3 hours ago, red snow said:

It was pretty chilling before the fight when logen told bethod's man "I'll keep an eye out for your sons". Logen may be pretending to be terrifying to have an edge if you pretend long enough it simply becomes who you are. Makes me wonder how much of the B9 days were him simply playing the character in which case he's more culpable than i often credit him for. I'm usually a b9 made him do it person.

I just read a scene with bremer meeting with jezal and he mentions how things didn't work out with lord brock? Was this explained in the heroes? Felt like it could have been hinting at his drinking or obsession with brock's daughter in law.

SOme of the later logen chapters make it pretty clear Logen has a pretty good awareness of what goes on while he is the B9. He knows how to let his face drop into that of the B9, he knows how to exhibit the B9 persona even when not possessed in order to inspire fear in the other Northmen. I feel like logen is largely deluding himself as part of his “i’m a better person” quest

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9 hours ago, RedEyedGhost said:

Rereading these in 2019 makes me think Joe was waaaayyyyyy ahead of the curve, and Logen is a masterful commentary on toxic masculinity.  I still think the Bloody-Nine is a spirit, but Logen in his head is so different from the Logen that interacts with others (especially the northmen) and nearly every time he's an absolute shit, he thinks about what his father would have told him or thought about the situation.  

All of Crummock's talk about the moon (and how the Bloody-Nine is beloved of the moon), makes me wonder if he's able to talk to spirits too, or just what the hell's going on there.  If it's explained, I have forgotten it, and will be happy to rediscover it.

That's quite a good point. As "nice" as the northmen seem to be, they are the worst crowd for logen to be amongst. His behaviour with Bethod and his quest gang were different in that i think he knew bethod was in charge (a father figure), that Jezal was inferior/a son and Ferro was essentially an equal/reminded him of his closed off/aggressive past. The problem is still substantially logen's though as people like Dogman, tul duru and threetimes don't wind up utter shits in the same crowd.

Crummock being able to talk to spirits makes sense - it seems to be spirits of natural elements eg moon mountains etc. Maybe he's Joe's spin on bombadil?

7 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

SOme of the later logen chapters make it pretty clear Logen has a pretty good awareness of what goes on while he is the B9. He knows how to let his face drop into that of the B9, he knows how to exhibit the B9 persona even when not possessed in order to inspire fear in the other Northmen. I feel like logen is largely deluding himself as part of his “i’m a better person” quest

Which definitely blurs the line meaning his worst actions can't be blamed on b9 alone as he probably commits atrocities under the guise of b9.

I guess he does achieve his quest by red country so there is some genuine wish to be better snd it did seem like he was very reluctant to get mixed up in situations that could lead to violence. It seemed his solution was simply to avoid powerful/violent people. Which maybe goes back to redeyedghost's comments

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I always used to look askance at people who speculated the Bloody Nine had manifested in Shivers... but you know what?  Maybe they aren’t crazy... :dunno: 

Quote

“Look at me?”  Shivers smashed its head off with his axe.  Then he was on top of someone, not knowing how he got there, ramming the edge of his shield into a face until it was nothing but a shapeless mess of red. He could hear someone whispering, whispering in his ear.  Mad, hissing, croaking voice.

”I am made of death.  I am the Great Leveller.  I am the storm in the High Places.”  The Bloody-Nine’s voice, but it came from his own throat.

Now... he’s just lost his eye and he’s battle drunk and coming down from husk; so maybe he’s just crazy.  But I can see why people question what’s happening here now.

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9 hours ago, Rhom said:

I always used to look askance at people who speculated the Bloody Nine had manifested in Shivers... but you know what?  Maybe they aren’t crazy... :dunno: 

Now... he’s just lost his eye and he’s battle drunk and coming down from husk; so maybe he’s just crazy.  But I can see why people question what’s happening here now.

That was my reading of it.  Also I prefer this explanation, showing what happens to good men when bad choices are made is much more satisfying than some supernatural bullshit.  Also, he clearly holds Monza to blame for his decent, brother fucker.

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