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kingoftheamericas

Homer, Tolkien, and Truth

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Posted (edited)

Greetings,

I have left the great halls (MA thesis got dismissed) of American Academia to truly begin actual discovery (wandered around a field with a drone), and found like Heinrich Schliemann that fiction is stranger and more real than many histories.  

With Google Earth I discovered that the whole North American continent was subdivided and that Amerindians owned land, individually.  Moreover, that Thomas Jefferson's Rectangle Survey System was the tool by which ALL lands were confiscated from their owners.  After my thesis advisor told me this topic was unacceptable, I tried transferring to another University with my 3.8 gpa.  They also told me "No." and "Don't bother re-applying."

Undaunted, I continued my research, looking into initial French and Spanish incursions into the North American Western Territories (here's where this story gets interesting) when I found this quote from Coronado-  

"...spreading the alarm throughout the country by means of great fires, which they kindled on high mountains,..."

At first, I thought, Tolkien, you dog! You just stole this tidbit from history, and included it in the Return of the King! Then I considered how Cibola was described as a City on or in a Mountain, and how Minas Tirith might look... then I thought what if Coronado was trying to invade Gondor...? So, I took a map of Middle Earth, turned it to try and fit what and where Coronado's description lay, and Eureka!

Instead of Rohan, I found a massive "Rael Horse Pasture", instead of Helm's Deep, "Laguna" and instead of a City on a Mountain I found "Castle Mountain." I could go on, I found them ALL, except for the entry to the Mines of Moria...I think it's buried.

Here's the path I took- https://imgur.com/gallery/9la21bh

https://imgur.com/gallery/Qakrqda

https://imgur.com/gallery/EpD0Ddn

https://imgur.com/gallery/AbieNCU

I visited Bag End two weeks ago.  Within this link is the drone footage I took. https://imgur.com/gallery/AbieNCU

So...I began watching Game of Thrones with the same eye- "What if this is just another version of real events?"

Has anyone ever discussed how closely Game of Thrones and the tales of Middle Earth have in common?  Needle is Sting, there's a Mary and Pip, and Jon Snow is of course Aragon, Prince of a long bereft house.  

Want to see the dragons they rode? https://imgur.com/gallery/0c0rZqM

The truth of our world is stranger than fiction...

Now, who do I tell...?  How do I go about protecting these sites...?

I've tried to contact people like Peter Jackson, the Tolkien Estate, and the actors who played these roles, but I can't get any solid feedback or iteration...what should I do???

-"King of the Americas, Lord of the West"

Edited by kingoftheamericas

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Look good, People of the West, I can't do this alone, nor do I wish to.  These tales, the truth behind them, and the wealth of a forgotten time are not for me alone...  They belong to all not one.

Please, I beg you, help me share with you, what I have found.

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I don't think anyone has ever noticed (or commented on anyway) similarities between ASoIaF and Tolkien before.  I wonder if Martin read Tolkien?  Interesting though, could be something there.  

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, kingoftheamericas said:

Greetings,

I have left the great halls (MA thesis got dismissed) of American Academia to truly begin actual discovery (wandered around a field with a drone), and found like Heinrich Schliemann that fiction is stranger and more real than many histories.  

With Google Earth I discovered that the whole North American continent was subdivided and that Amerindians owned land, individually.  Moreover, that Thomas Jefferson's Rectangle Survey System was the tool by which ALL lands were confiscated from their owners.  After my thesis advisor told me this topic was unacceptable, I tried transferring to another University with my 3.8 gpa.  They also told me "No." and "Don't bother re-applying."

Undaunted, I continued my research, looking into initial French and Spanish incursions into the North American Western Territories (here's where this story gets interesting) when I found this quote from Coronado-  

"...spreading the alarm throughout the country by means of great fires, which they kindled on high mountains,..."

At first, I thought, Tolkien, you dog! You just stole this tidbit from history, and included it in the Return of the King! Then I considered how Cibola was described as a City on or in a Mountain, and how Minas Tirith might look... then I thought what if Coronado was trying to invade Gondor...? So, I took a map of Middle Earth, turned it to try and fit what and where Coronado's description lay, and Eureka!

Instead of Rohan, I found a massive "Rael Horse Pasture", instead of Helm's Deep, "Laguna" and instead of a City on a Mountain I found "Castle Mountain." I could go on, I found them ALL, except for the entry to the Mines of Moria...I think it's buried.

Here's the path I took- https://imgur.com/gallery/9la21bh

https://imgur.com/gallery/Qakrqda

https://imgur.com/gallery/EpD0Ddn

https://imgur.com/gallery/AbieNCU

I visited Bag End two weeks ago.  Within this link is the drone footage I took. https://imgur.com/gallery/AbieNCU

So...I began watching Game of Thrones with the same eye- "What if this is just another version of real events?"

Has anyone ever discussed how closely Game of Thrones and the tales of Middle Earth have in common?  Needle is Sting, there's a Mary and Pip, and Jon Snow is of course Aragon, Prince of a long bereft house.  

Want to see the dragons they rode? https://imgur.com/gallery/0c0rZqM

The truth of our world is stranger than fiction...

Now, who do I tell...?  How do I go about protecting these sites...?

I've tried to contact people like Peter Jackson, the Tolkien Estate, and the actors who played these roles, but I can't get any solid feedback or iteration...what should I do???

-"King of the Americas, Lord of the West"

When did Tolkien travel to America and do an extensive tour prior to writing any of the Hobbit, LoTR, or his other works to get these tidbits for his work?

He, after all, didn’t have access to “Google Earth”.

Edited by Ser Scot A Ellison

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1 hour ago, larrytheimp said:

I don't think anyone has ever noticed (or commented on anyway) similarities between ASoIaF and Tolkien before.  I wonder if Martin read Tolkien?  Interesting though, could be something there.  

What i'd wager is that they both used ancient myth and lore from which to start...

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Scot,

Obviously Tolkien was very well-read and could have been quite familiar with accounts of Coronado's expedition. That, an atlas, and a copy of the Encyclopedia Britiannica could go a long way for someone so erudite.

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3 minutes ago, kingoftheamericas said:

What i'd wager is that they both used ancient myth and lore from which to start...

I dunno.  Martin came from a TV background so he probably didn't do much research, these new hotshots like to just play it fast and loose with the facts and don't have time to read old stuff.  Tolkien on the other hand was a World War vet so probably didn't have much time to read either.  Could be coinincidence or maybe they watched the same shows.

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1 minute ago, larrytheimp said:

I dunno.  Martin came from a TV background so he probably didn't do much research, these new hotshots like to just play it fast and loose with the facts and don't have time to read old stuff.  Tolkien on the other hand was a World War vet so probably didn't have much time to read either.  Could be coinincidence or maybe they watched the same shows.

:rofl:

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So i just popped a goog-dog on it and I'm seeing a lot of results describing Martin as the American Tolieking so maybe I was wrong?

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, kingoftheamericas said:

Undaunted, I continued my research, looking into initial French and Spanish incursions into the North American Western Territories (here's where this story gets interesting) when I found this quote from Coronado-  

"...spreading the alarm throughout the country by means of great fires, which they kindled on high mountains,..."

At first, I thought, Tolkien, you dog! You just stole this tidbit from history, and included it in the Return of the King!

No, I think he got that idea from the fact that signal fires were lit for the same purpose on high hills across Britain back in the iron age, and at times more recently.   Indeed many hills here are named "beacon", or have a name encompassing the meaning of fire, to this day.  From Worcester Beacon (in the Malverns* - which Tolkien would have often seen) to the Brecon Beacons in Wales to Ben Lomond in Scotland (which shares it's name with Pen Pumlumon in Wales, both meaning Beacon Hill in old British).


* which I think may have been the inspiration for Weathertop)

Edited by Essan

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1 hour ago, Ran said:

Scot,

Obviously Tolkien was very well-read and could have been quite familiar with accounts of Coronado's expedition. That, an atlas, and a copy of the Encyclopedia Britiannica could go a long way for someone so erudite.

Do we have any indication, beyond coincidence, to indicate Tolkien had any interest in the history of Conqestidors in the Americas?  Or Amercian history generally?

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3 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

When did Tolkien travel to America and do an extensive tour prior to writing any of the Hobbit, LoTR, or his other works to get these tidbits for his work?

He, after all, didn’t have access to “Google Earth”.

   Would he need to?

I mean I could learn and write about anywhere without having visited...

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3 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

I dunno.  Martin came from a TV background so he probably didn't do much research, these new hotshots like to just play it fast and loose with the facts and don't have time to read old stuff.  Tolkien on the other hand was a World War vet so probably didn't have much time to read either.  Could be coinincidence or maybe they watched the same shows.

Who knows, really...  Tolkien admits to using ancient lore and myth, but never claimed it as fiction.

I can't speak to the events, dragons, wizards, and ents, but the places are absolutely real, and where they should be.

Bag End is for sale at the moment.  $1.2 million for 153 acres of Shire land...a BARGAIN!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, kingoftheamericas said:

   Would he need to?

I mean I could learn and write about anywhere without having visited...

Beyond the coincidences you’ve found what indications do you have of a scholar of Anglo-Saxon having any interest in Spanish Conquestadors in North America?  Beacons are not isolated to North America.

Edited by Ser Scot A Ellison

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There is a poem, famous in Victorian times, that Tolkien, with his classics education, would have certainly been taught as a child, and probably had to learn by heart. It is all about lighting beacon fires to warn of an invasion.

The Armada, by Lord Macaulay

 

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Tolkien was carried to North America and the 16th century by Shadowfax. They did it all in a night and a day.

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6 hours ago, Essan said:

No, I think he got that idea from the fact that signal fires were lit for the same purpose on high hills across Britain back in the iron age, and at times more recently.   Indeed many hills here are named "beacon", or have a name encompassing the meaning of fire, to this day.  From Worcester Beacon (in the Malverns* - which Tolkien would have often seen) to the Brecon Beacons in Wales to Ben Lomond in Scotland (which shares it's name with Pen Pumlumon in Wales, both meaning Beacon Hill in old British).


* which I think may have been the inspiration for Weathertop)

Ahhh...

Did you look at any of those links?  He was invading Gondor.  I've been to Bag End, there's drone footage available...  :/

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4 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Do we have any indication, beyond coincidence, to indicate Tolkien had any interest in the history of Conqestidors in the Americas?  Or Amercian history generally?

Coincidence...?  Look at the links provided carefully.  I've laid out my findings, and Tolkien clearly did TONS of research on the American history.

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2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Beyond the coincidences you’ve found what indications do you have of a scholar of Anglo-Saxon having any interest in Spanish Conquestadors in North America?  Beacons are not isolated to North America.

Uhhh...

I've been to Bag End.  The drone footage is available.

Did you even look at ALL of the links?  

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