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Eddard Waters

Joffrey becomes King unopposed, what does his reign look like?

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I honestly think that king Joffrey would unintentionally spark another rebellion.
He'd be a worse king than Aerys. At least Aerys' cruelty was because of his insanity
and paranoia. Joffrey's cruelty is just due to pure malice. He's more like Maegor the Cruel.

After Robert bankrupting the realm, followed by his 'son' ruling with zero empathy,
all it would take is for Joffrey to hurt a loved one of some important high lord,
and the whole realm would decide that this new dynasty never should have been in power.
Also, I don't think that there's anything Tywin could do to get Joffrey to chill the hell out.
Joff was showing signs of madness way earlier in his life than Aerys did, and once he reaches
his sixteenth nameday and the regency ends, he'd go off the bloody rails.
There's almost nothing he wouldn't do, and nobody could hold him back.
A new dynasty would rise up, or the kingdom would split, and nobody would
ever trust the Baratheons again... As long as they didn't get completely
exterminated during the rebellion.

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On ‎4‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 2:24 PM, King Gilgamesh said:

He might get better.  Or he might get worse.  But good grief, Joffrey and Sansa running the kingdom is gonna be hell for most people.  

 

On ‎4‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 3:28 PM, The Wolves said:

Tywin wouldn’t be able to keep Joffery in check, I think he even knew it that’s why in that chapter when Joffery called him out about about being afraid of Aerys that Tywin was visably shook. Joffery challenge Tywin and it scared Tywin because he saw that  Joffery was uncontrollable. 

Tyrion had the right of it that Joffery would be another type of Mad King. Though I think with factors like Cersei, his corrupt, immoral, evil kingsguard and the monsterous Lannisters, plus the corruption of power, Joffery would have been on a whole other level than Aerys. 

King Joff with Sansa as his queen is the stuff of nightmares. 

Aerys is a bad guy for sure.  But his mischief was limited to those who either really betrayed him or he suspected betrayed him.  That's a rather small circle.  So his kingdom prospered despite his flaws and the common folk had it good. 

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I think people are being unfair or underestimating Sansa. Yes she was rather naive, she didn’t seem to really grasp what being a queen is, but she is a quick learner and pretty astute when need be. Sansa is also able to grow as a person and could have grown into a remarkable queen. Sansa would make a great Queen she just doesn’t need a monster like Joffery as her king. 

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On 4/7/2019 at 10:25 PM, Eddard Waters said:

Why would he do that? Someone like Sansa or Margary would be far more logical than freaking Daenerys

Besides, Viserys wants the Iron Throne, and absolutely no one who doesn't want a Targaryen restoration would allow him anywhere near Westeros.

One more thing. Once both Robert and Stannis Baratheon dies, House Baratheon might lose much support. This might facilitate an earlier invasion of Westeros by House Targaryen. House Targaryen might ally with the Golden Company. Inorder for Varys and Illyrio to seat their Aegon on the Ironthrone, Viserys might be disposed of later. Viserys might also attempt a landing in Westeros on his own without Illyrio and the Golden Company.

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On 4/10/2019 at 10:15 AM, Widowmaker 811 said:

 

King Joff with Sansa as his queen is the stuff of nightmares. 

Aerys is a bad guy for sure.  But his mischief was limited to those who either really betrayed him or he suspected betrayed him.  That's a rather small circle.  So his kingdom prospered despite his flaws and the common folk had it good. 

:)

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/7/2019 at 9:22 AM, Eddard Waters said:

Around a year before AGOT an accident involving wildfire kills the entire Small Council and Robert Baratheon, leaving Joffrey Hill king and no one to oppose him, at least in the short term.

So what does his reign actually look like with no one in Westeros currently trying to mount his head on a spike.

Who does he marry? On paper, Sansa is actually a very good match because it strengthens the ties between houses Baratheon, Lannister, Stark, Tully and Arryn, but the Tyrells are going to be pushing hard for him marrying Margaery. 

We all know Joffrey is a vicious idiot, but does Tywin, who would most likely be appointed Hand, manage to keep him in check? 

So Robert, Barristan, Littlefinger, Varys, Stannis, Renly, Pycelle, and Jon Arryn all die?  Wow that's some crazy s**t.

Is this clearly an accident or are there rumors the Lannisters are responsible?  Regardless, with all 3 Baratheons dead, a lot of things change.  Most importantly no one will challenge that Joffrey is a Baratheon.

There's no reason for Joffrey to marry Sansa, since the Starks and the Lannisters don't have a relationship.  And besides Joffrey is too young.  He doesn't need to get married.  I agree that Tywin would become the Hand, and with Joffrey being younger he would probably have a better chance of keeping him under control.  

Shireen would become the Lady of the Stormlands, and the Florents would therefore have a lot of power.  A Florent would probably become the Castellan at Dragonstone.  Melisandre had been in Dragonstone for years before the story begins, so I'm guessing Selyse is already converted, but Mel believed that Stannis was Azor Ahai, so if he dies, she might leave.  Does she go back to Essos, or go somewhere else?  Do her visions lead her to Winterfell where Jon Snow is?  Who knows.  But whatever she chooses to do could change everyone's destiny.

Joffrey gets the Stormlands, and while he could give them to Tommen, he probably won't.

Tyrion probably becomes Master of Coin, and won't be bitter about it like he was when he was demoted from Hand to Master of Coin in ASoS.  Robert Arryn becomes Lord of the Vale, and with Littlefinger dead, Lysa might go there.  The new Grand Maester would have been Gormon Tyrell, Mace's uncle, which might have complicated things a bit.  Jaime would have become the new Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, and while Tywin would have tried to get him to leave and become his heir, Jaime would stay in King's Landing, so that he can be with Cersei.  Kevan becomes Master of Laws, and the Small council consists of Tywin, Jaime, Tyrion, Kevan, Lannister loyalists as Master of ships and Master of whisperers, and a Tyrell Grand Maester.

Now if Tywin insisted on finding a new husband for Cersei, things might get tense between Tywin and Jaime, but with the kingdom being at peace, I don't think there would be any reason to do so.  So I think things would have been ok for a while, especially since the Starks, and the Martells would probably not make a move to overthrow the Lannisters.

 

Edited by bloodsteel bitterraven

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Posted (edited)
On 4/7/2019 at 3:15 PM, nyser1 said:

Dead Baratheon brothers means Dragonstone and Storm's End are firmly in crown hands. Add the stormlands and royal navy to the existing Lannister and crownland strength.

 

Ned would be sad to hear that his boy his dead but there would be no reason for the Starks to go South. I doubt Tywin would invite them, so the Starks would do there usual brooding in the North. If Lysa survives the blast with Robert, perhaps Cat and the younger children go to the Vale.

 

Tywin would want to cement his hold in the South. Additionally, he would want to use this as an opportunity to pay off crown debts without it coming from his own pocket. Therefore, I still see a Marg/Joff match and Perhaps Tommen with a Stormlands family. Perhaps he even gets two handed Jamie out of the kingsguard to go back to the Rock.

You're right about the Stormlands, but Stannis has a heir:  Shireen.  And Shireen's mother comes from a powerful and ambitious family, so no the Lannisters won't have control of Dragonstone.

Also, there's no way Jaime, at this stage of his life, leaves King's Landing and Cersei, unless they leave together, which Cersei wouldn't do.

Edited by bloodsteel bitterraven

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On 4/11/2019 at 9:22 AM, The Wolves said:

I think people are being unfair or underestimating Sansa. Yes she was rather naive, she didn’t seem to really grasp what being a queen is, but she is a quick learner and pretty astute when need be. Sansa is also able to grow as a person and could have grown into a remarkable queen. Sansa would make a great Queen she just doesn’t need a monster like Joffery as her king. 

Sansa would certainly have been a great queen.  But there's absolutely no way she would have married Joffrey.  That was all Robert's idea.

As I said, there's no reason for Joffrey to get married so young, and therefore give power to another family, when the Lannisters already have full control.  They agreed to have Joffrey marry Margaery because they needed the Tyrell army.  That won't be the case in this scenario.

Also why would Selyse agree to marry Shireen to Tommen and lose control of Dragonstone?  That makes no sense, especially if she's suspecting foul play in the death of Stannis.

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On 4/11/2019 at 1:42 PM, norwaywolf123 said:

One more thing. Once both Robert and Stannis Baratheon dies, House Baratheon might lose much support. This might facilitate an earlier invasion of Westeros by House Targaryen. House Targaryen might ally with the Golden Company. Inorder for Varys and Illyrio to seat their Aegon on the Ironthrone, Viserys might be disposed of later. Viserys might also attempt a landing in Westeros on his own without Illyrio and the Golden Company.

Viserys was a beggar king.  He wouldn't be able to invade anything.

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On 4/7/2019 at 5:45 PM, Lollygag said:

Two chapters later in Tyrion VIII, Joff gets stronger poisoned wine than dreamwine in an event featuring prominent sharp words swords. As seen above, the confrontation ends with a direct connection between words and swords and a mention of a different wedding/murder plot. 

 

Nailed it. For what we know it's possible that Tywin might have had a hand on the purple wedding. Or at least he deliberately looked the other way while the plot was thickening. Based on this I doubt he would let Joffrey rule for a long time. His final objectives in life would be: Block Tyrion access to Casterly Rock; somehow eliminate Joffrey from both the Throne and his own line of sucession and, finally, groom Tommen to be both King and Lord of West.

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On 4/30/2019 at 1:16 AM, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

You're right about the Stormlands, but Stannis has a heir:  Shireen.  And Shireen's mother comes from a powerful and ambitious family, so no the Lannisters won't have control of Dragonstone.

Also, there's no way Jaime, at this stage of his life, leaves King's Landing and Cersei, unless they leave together, which Cersei wouldn't do.

He would if Tywin forced him to.

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Posted (edited)

IMHO, as soon as Joffrey has an heir, preferably a male, Tywin starts to find a way to get rid of the moron  - hunting accident, riding accident, jousting accident, poisoning, whatever… It's not that difficult with such a self-assured moron.

Edited by Nowy Tends

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Posted (edited)

Joffrey already had a heir: Tommen

They don't even have to kill him.  They can just feed him milk of the poppy until he turns into a blabbering fool like Robert Arryn.

Edited by bloodsteel bitterraven

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16 hours ago, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

He tried to make him leave the Kingsguard in ASoS, and Jaime refused to, so Tywin disowned him.

You do realize this is Tywin Lannister. Let alone the fact that he was de facto and de jure the most powerful person in the realm (in all power categories), he had tremendous power (to an unhealthy extent one may argue) over his entire family.

 

Given time I believe Jaime would have left. He was in midst of marrying Cersei off. With Cersei gone Jaime would not be so eager to stay in KL. Not to mention I would not be surprised if he pulled a Joffrey/Barristan just to preserve the family name.

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On 4/11/2019 at 12:15 AM, Widowmaker 811 said:

 

King Joff with Sansa as his queen is the stuff of nightmares. 

Aerys is a bad guy for sure.  But his mischief was limited to those who either really betrayed him or he suspected betrayed him.  That's a rather small circle.  So his kingdom prospered despite his flaws and the common folk had it good. 

Didn’t Aerys torture innocents all the time and then rape his wife afterwards?

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