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Eddard Waters

Joffrey becomes King unopposed, what does his reign look like?

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Around a year before AGOT an accident involving wildfire kills the entire Small Council and Robert Baratheon, leaving Joffrey Hill king and no one to oppose him, at least in the short term.

So what does his reign actually look like with no one in Westeros currently trying to mount his head on a spike.

Who does he marry? On paper, Sansa is actually a very good match because it strengthens the ties between houses Baratheon, Lannister, Stark, Tully and Arryn, but the Tyrells are going to be pushing hard for him marrying Margaery. 

We all know Joffrey is a vicious idiot, but does Tywin, who would most likely be appointed Hand, manage to keep him in check? 

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Remember that wacky Mad King character?  Something like that, I'd imagine.  

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Tywin wouldn’t be able to keep Joffery in check, I think he even knew it that’s why in that chapter when Joffery called him out about about being afraid of Aerys that Tywin was visably shook. Joffery challenge Tywin and it scared Tywin because he saw that  Joffery was uncontrollable. 

Tyrion had the right of it that Joffery would be another type of Mad King. Though I think with factors like Cersei, his corrupt, immoral, evil kingsguard and the monsterous Lannisters, plus the corruption of power, Joffery would have been on a whole other level than Aerys. 

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So, the question here  - with Robert, Stannis, Renly, Jon Arryn, Varys, and Littlefinger dead, and Eddard & the Starks now happy to stay in the North - is does Tywin do something to delay Joffrey's age of majority, believing he can shape or mold him, or even attempt to bypass him somehow (accident, or send him to the Citadel).  Because, Joffrey's reign is most likely another Maegor the Cruel, and I think Tywin would see that and realize the perilous position it puts House Lannister in.  

In theory, Tywin could try to appoint a small council loyal to him, and make Joffrey more of a puppet, try to keep him happy/occupied with things that he can't screw up too much.  The problem is, that Joff is too much of a wild card, and would eventually either issue an order that screws things up or get pissed at another important Lord for no good reason.  And no matter how loyal the small council/court is to Tywin, someone will see an opportunity by following Joff's commands instead.  

I think Tywin finds a way where Joff eliminates himself.  It may be as simple as allowing Joff to play the part of champion in a trial by combat, or lead an ill-fated mission against a rebellion of some kind with minimal Kingsguard support - or the support of those who would easily look the other way or be slow to act (Blount, Trant, Moore).  Then Tywin gets Tommen on the throne, who he can mold as desired.  

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Maybe Joffrey could marry Daenerys inorder to strenghten his claim? Could this be done with Viserys support?

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9 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said:

Maybe Joffrey could marry Daenerys inorder to strenghten his claim? Could this be done with Viserys support?

Why would he do that? Someone like Sansa or Margary would be far more logical than freaking Daenerys

Besides, Viserys wants the Iron Throne, and absolutely no one who doesn't want a Targaryen restoration would allow him anywhere near Westeros.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said:

Maybe Joffrey could marry Daenerys inorder to strenghten his claim? Could this be done with Viserys support?

Why would Dany consent to marry into the family that murdered her brother's children, his wife, and her father?  Makes no sense on her end.  An offer from the Lannisters would probably just be laughed off as a trap.

Edited by briantw

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GRRM already told us. Aerys III.

Aerys is actually mentioned quite a bit in ASOS Tyrion VI. Cersei's influence is also an issue and Jaime later compares her to Aerys, too. The conflict with Joff ends with Tywin giving Joff his gold-eyed stare (beware when Tywin's eyes are called gold), dreamwine, and talking of giving Joff a "sharp lesson" or sharp words. 

"The boy is thirteen. There is time yet." Lord Tywin paced to the window. That was unlike him; he was more upset than he wished to show. "He requires a sharp lesson."

Tyrion had gotten his own sharp lesson at thirteen. He felt almost sorry for his nephew. On the other hand, no one deserved it more. "Enough of Joffrey," he said. "Wars are won with quills and ravens, wasn't that what you said? I must congratulate you. How long have you and Walder Frey been plotting this?"

 

Two chapters later in Tyrion VIII, Joff gets stronger poisoned wine than dreamwine in an event featuring prominent sharp words swords. As seen above, the confrontation ends with a direct connection between words and swords and a mention of a different wedding/murder plot. 

 

 

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Joffrey Lannister will be worse than Robert.  He takes over an empty treasury and a throne loaded with debt.  His parents haven't a clue when it comes to finances.  I guess you could say Jaime and Cersei are financially illiterate.  He might have a chance with more able parents but the kid doesn't have a prayer.  The realm would bleed until the end of his reign.  

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Perhaps I am the odd one out but I think this would be great for everyone except Baratheon and Targaryen supporters.

 

Tywin would become hand of the king. There would be no war scheming or active restoration scheming in Westeros with Varys and Baelish dead. Dead Baratheon brothers means Dragonstone and Storm's End are firmly in crown hands. Add the stormlands and royal navy to the existing Lannister and crownland strength.

 

Ned would be sad to hear that his boy his dead but there would be no reason for the Starks to go South. I doubt Tywin would invite them, so the Starks would do there usual brooding in the North. If Lysa survives the blast with Robert, perhaps Cat and the younger children go to the Vale.

 

Tywin would want to cement his hold in the South. Additionally, he would want to use this as an opportunity to pay off crown debts without it coming from his own pocket. Therefore, I still see a Marg/Joff match and Perhaps Tommen with a Stormlands family. Perhaps he even gets two handed Jamie out of the kingsguard to go back to the Rock.

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Just now, nyser1 said:

Perhaps I am the odd one out but I think this would be great for everyone except Baratheon and Targaryen supporters.

 

Tywin would become hand of the king. There would be no war scheming or active restoration scheming in Westeros with Varys and Baelish dead. Dead Baratheon brothers means Dragonstone and Storm's End are firmly in crown hands. Add the stormlands and royal navy to the existing Lannister and crownland strength.

 

Ned would be sad to hear that his boy his dead but there would be no reason for the Starks to go South. I doubt Tywin would invite them, so the Starks would do there usual brooding in the North. If Lysa survives the blast with Robert, perhaps Cat and the younger children go to the Vale.

 

Tywin would want to cement his hold in the South. Additionally, he would want to use this as an opportunity to pay off crown debts without it coming from his own pocket. Therefore, I still see a Marg/Joff match and Perhaps Tommen with a Stormlands family. Perhaps he even gets two handed Jamie out of the kingsguard to go back to the Rock.

Tywin is an old man.  His days are numbered.  Joffrey can't be contained when he reaches adulthood.  

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Just now, Shannon L said:

Tywin is an old man.  His days are numbered.  Joffrey can't be contained when he reaches adulthood.  

Old but young enough to make a tremendous impact. 20-24 years younger than Arryn.

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The most profitable marriage pacts for Joffrey would be with either Sansa or Margarey. Both are solid choices for their own reasons, but with the death of Robert, Ned wouldn't be heading south, and there's no way that he'd send his eldest daughter to go be raised by the Lannisters. Joffrey would most likely marry Margarey.

I think that Tywin would be able to control Joffrey more easily had he come to KL earlier during his reign. I doubt that Joffrey would be completely put in check. By the time he reaches adulthood, he'd be better than the mad king or Aerion at least, but he definitely wouldn't be known as a saint.

With a united realm it'd be much easier to repel the Others. I'm not sure how much damage the Others are going to inflict upon the realm, in ASOIAF, so I can only predict that it'd be better had Joffrey ruled unopposed. I believe that the fAegon conspiracy would be halted, but eventually continue on after the Long Night leaves Westeros severely weakened. If this were to happen, we may see another one of Balon's rebellions. It's possible that Illyrio may of set Dany and Viserys on a different path.

Jaime would be present for at least the first few years of Joffrey's reign. This would likely hinder the decline of Cercei's sanity.

With the sudden death of LF, I think that Lysa would commit suicide, leaving Sweetrobin to be fostered by Tywin since there's no competition with Stannis. This may lead to a marriage alliance between Myrcella and Robert A.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, nyser1 said:

Old but young enough to make a tremendous impact. 20-24 years younger than Arryn.

Joffrey is more impuulsive.  He's going to be tougher than Robert.  

Edited by Shannon L

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Just now, Shannon L said:

Joffrey is more variable.  He's going to be tougher than Robert.  

He is still a boy and not yet of age. Tywin had been hand for over 20 years, is his grandfather, and without the other players in KL would have literally everyone underneath his thumb. He would be de facto  and (de jure as probable regent )ruler (which he was in the original story before his death).

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11 hours ago, Eddard Waters said:

Why would he do that? Someone like Sansa or Margary would be far more logical than freaking Daenerys

It would strengthen Joffrey's claim. If later the rumors about Joffrey's true parentage is spread, it could still make it so that his children have a strong claim.

11 hours ago, Eddard Waters said:

Besides, Viserys wants the Iron Throne, and absolutely no one who doesn't want a Targaryen restoration would allow him anywhere near Westeros.

That is why i am doubtfull that such a match could be made with Viserys consent. Perhaps if Viserys had died it would be more likely.

11 hours ago, briantw said:

Why would Dany consent to marry into the family that murdered her brother's children, his wife, and her father?  Makes no sense on her end.  An offer from the Lannisters would probably just be laughed off as a trap.

Daenerys would become queen.

 

Even if Viserys and/or Daenerys refuses the offer, someone else might 'repatriate' Daenerys to Westeros in exchange for Lannister gold.

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18 hours ago, Eddard Waters said:

Around a year before AGOT an accident involving wildfire kills the entire Small Council and Robert Baratheon, leaving Joffrey Hill king and no one to oppose him, at least in the short term.

 

If the small council including Varys dies, it puts a spanner in Ilyrio's  plan(s) for the exiled claimant (s) in Essos. He needs chaos to create a vacuum for either Viserys or Griff to attack. 

The loss of the little birds network means that there's less updates on Viserys and Dany. Cheesemonger might not even bother to entertain them, as they have zero chance of invading a stable realm. (In the short term)

Tommen would have to get the Stormlands, as Renly and Stannis die in accident. Tommen could be married off to his "cousin" Shireen to make sure Dragonstone is kept happy too. Until someone notices that their offspring is strangely "black of hair..." :P

 

 

 

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Joffrey would implement a standing Westerosi army in King's Landing (un-ironically his best idea)

 

in all seriousness, i think it would depend on how much Jaime step ups, assuming he still has his hand & Robert's dead. maybe he'd take on a more parental role & teach him how to fight

 

ideally Tywin would take over, no-one can dispute that, and i think he'd say Joffrey has to learn to fight, or go through some measure of tutelage like Young Griff does under Connington & Haldon.  at the least getting battered & bruised every day would hopefully build some character

 

all depends if he can be reformed from torturing cats and whatever else he did in his spare time under Cersei. He may just be a sociopath

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