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Impbread

Pole did Ramsay remove theon's junk?

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Yeah, Theon absolutely refuses to bathe and almost freaks out when he thinks he is going to get stripped in public.  He is desperately hiding what has happened to him.  And we have the explanation for this in him thinking of body parts Ramsay removed: fingers and toes he names and we can see he still has his tongue, eyes and ears so what else can he be referring to?

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1 hour ago, the trees have eyes said:

Yeah, Theon absolutely refuses to bathe and almost freaks out when he thinks he is going to get stripped in public.  He is desperately hiding what has happened to him.  And we have the explanation for this in him thinking of body parts Ramsay removed: fingers and toes he names and we can see he still has his tongue, eyes and ears so what else can he be referring to?

His appendix? :P

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There are hints and innuendos that he's lost the penis. And then there's the quote about Theon thinking about taking the Washerwoman right there on the table...which doesn't make sense. This is one of those times where I wonder if Martin engages in Schrodinger's Foreshadowing: It's either a clue or not until Martin finalizes a book and confirms the hint or ignores it. I think he sometimes likes the ability to take things back if he's unsure about it.

Medically, I would say that it's unlikely for his penis to be removed given the medical technology available to them at the time to keep him alive. However, that would also be true for Varys as well. Of course, Varys could be lying.

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4 minutes ago, Unit A2 said:

Did Ramsay castrate Theon.  He did.  

Did he take the twig or just the berries?

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27 minutes ago, Unit A2 said:

Balls

Possible. He but I think the twig is gone. He protests when Ramsey tells him to get h ifs wife ready. He says " I have no" Ramsey tells him to use his tongue. If he had a prick why would he object?

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On 4/9/2019 at 2:11 AM, Impbread said:

Possible. He but I think the twig is gone. He protests when Ramsey tells him to get h ifs wife ready. He says " I have no" Ramsey tells him to use his tongue. If he had a prick why would he object?

Exactly: I don't think GRRM can be any clearer unless he spells it out.

14 hours ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

I believe he left all thing there but skin.

Ramsay's m.o. is to remove the skin from a finger or a toe until the pain is so unbearable that the victim begs for it to be cut off.  He absolutely delights in the victim's torment being so great that he asks for amputation as a favour and the display of this total physical and psychological power he has over the victim is the apogee of his sadistic enjoyment.  Even if initially he "only" flayed the skin off Theon's penis the pain and horror would be almost unimaginable until Theon begged for an end to the suffering. 

There's a progression of how GRRM deals with this.  First we see Theon able to think about Ramsay amputating a finger but unable to think about something else, hinting at a traumatic memory he is unable to bear:

"If I say it wrong, he'll take another finger, or worse, he'll … he'll … He would not think about that, he could not think about that." [ADWD Reek I]

Then we have a curious analogy, on the surface simply referring to Ramsay's penchant for removing extremities but suggesting Ramsay would (or did) remove something tucked down between his legs:

"When Little Walder pulled him up and Big Walder waved the torch at him to herd him from the cell, he went along as docile as a dog. If he'd had a tail, he would have tucked it down between his legs.  If I had a tail, the Bastard would have cut it off." [ADWD Reek I]

Again in the same chapter he can review the loss of his fingers and toes but the other thing he could not bear to think about is a memory successfully repressed at least temporarily:

"Thus far he had lost two fingers off his left hand and the pinky off his right, but only the little toe off his right foot against three from his left." [ADWD Reek I]

But the memory pops up again when he is forced by Ramsay to induce the Ironborn at Moat Cailin to surrender.  Again he can reflect on losing fingers and toes, even consider having his tongue cut out or legs flayed but there is still something so deeply traumatic he cannot bear to think about it directly. The reference to thing singular suggests he is thinking of his penis not testicles.

"He has only taken toes and fingers and that other thing, when he might have had my tongue, or peeled the skin off my legs from heel to thigh." [ADWD Reek II]

Then there's the chapter where Roose tries to persuade him to bathe or change his clothes and Theon nearly freaks out.  The distress he is in could be explained by Ramsay having so total a hold over him that he is almost beside himself with the thought of the punishment to follow for disobeying him.  But it seems more likely that, as his lack of fingers, teeth and toes can be seen clearly or inferred from his hobbling step, the "wounds" he is referring to are what he is desperate to hide because it would be the final humiliation and destruction of his personality to have it publicly revealed that he is less than a man.  "He could not let them see him" is his primary concern.  And also why would Ramsay insist he never bathe or change his clothes unless he was aware that he had gone a step too far with Theon than it was wise to allow to become public knowledge?

"A bath?" Reek felt a clenching in his guts. "I  I would sooner not, m'lord. Please. I have … wounds, I … and these clothes, Lord Ramsay gave them to me, he … he said that I was never to take them off, save at his command …"
"You are wearing rags," Lord Bolton said, quite patiently. "Filthy things, torn and stained and stinking of blood and urine. And thin. You must be cold. We'll put you in lambswool, soft and warm. Perhaps a fur-lined cloak. Would you like that?"  "No." He could not let them take the clothes Lord Ramsay gave him. He could not let them see him.  "Would you prefer to dress in silk and velvet? There was a time when you were fond of such, I do recall."  "No," he insisted, shrilly. "No, I only want these clothes. Reek's clothes. I'm Reek, it rhymes with peek." His heart was beating like a drum, and his voice rose to a frightened squeak. "I don't want a bath. Please, m'lord, don't take my clothes."  "Will you let us wash them, at least?"  "No. No, m'lord. Please." He clutched his tunic to his chest with both hands and hunched down in the saddle, half-afraid that Roose Bolton might command his guardsmen to tear the clothes off him right there in the street. [ADWD Reek III]
 
And then, finally, when Ramsay, the model of a considerate husband cherishing his bride, orders Reek to get her "ready" we see again the shadow of the traumatic event he can't bring himself to think about and his confusion that Ramsay would expect him to perform sexual acts.  Given Ramsay's further directions the "I have no-" doesn't really allow of any other interpretation.
 
"Reek, get over here. Get her ready for me."  For a moment he did not understand. "I … do you mean … m'lord, I have no … I "  "With your mouth," Lord Ramsay said.  [ADWD The Prince of Winterfell]

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On 4/7/2019 at 4:31 PM, Impbread said:

This one is pretty straight up I just wanted to know if you think that Ramsey removed theon's junk State yes or no and why you think so.

Huh Huh Huh, Heh Heh Heh.

Nice one. Martin couldn't have done any better. :cool4:

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On 4/8/2019 at 4:28 AM, Clegane'sPup said:

Can't know if you missed it or not since you never had it.

A man still needs to urinate.

Martin's Unsullied, Varys and Theon still need to pee.

Wikipedia is just one click away:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penis_removal

Yes, it was done historically, some even performed it on themselves. And yes, partial incontinence was the known complication, which is why Theon was beginning to stink again, more than the other unwashed men crammed into Winterfell, by the end of ADwD.

Theon being able to survive it, along with the other partial flayings in a dirty cell, wearing dirty rags is very iffy, but we can imagine that he has a really great immune system, I guess?

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Yes. Don’t know why GRRM decided to be subtle with THAT of all things, though. He’s not exactly subtle when it comes to horrifying stuff. 

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On 4/26/2019 at 6:36 AM, Maia said:

Wikipedia is just one click away:

Yep.

On 4/26/2019 at 6:36 AM, Maia said:

Yes, it was done historically, some even performed it on themselves. And yes, partial incontinence was the known complication, which is why Theon was beginning to stink again, more than the other unwashed men crammed into Winterfell, by the end of ADwD.

Okay, Theon is dickless.

 

On 4/26/2019 at 6:36 AM, Maia said:

Theon being able to survive it, along with the other partial flayings in a dirty cell, wearing dirty rags is very iffy, but we can imagine that he has a really great immune system, I guess?

Argh. Tis a fantasy story. I'll accept the the citizens of Westeros have a great immune system.

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