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Question about Viserys

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It says he was born in 276. (World of Ice and Fire Aerys chapter)

Few pages later in Year of False Spring chapter, which was 281. Viserys would be 5. 

It says “Prince Viserys was but seven years of age”. 

Why this 2 year discrepancy? Am I missing something? Just wondering

I couldn’t find an explanation, but sorry if this is already discussed. 

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I didn't catch that discrepancy.  It's not unexpected given the number of pages written.  There are bound to be many inconsistencies in all of the books.  World is not written from an all-knowing third party narrator.  The author-historian can easily make mistakes.  

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Posted (edited)

I don’t think there’s any relevance. But if you want more on it maybe @Nittanian or RhaenysTargaryen (can’t tag you, your name isn’t popping up!) can chime in. 

BTW, check out the Small Questions thread, pinned on the main page. 

And welcome!

ETA: 

 

Edited by kissdbyfire

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15 hours ago, weirwoodhood said:

It says he was born in 276. (World of Ice and Fire Aerys chapter)

Few pages later in Year of False Spring chapter, which was 281. Viserys would be 5. 

It says “Prince Viserys was but seven years of age”. 

Why this 2 year discrepancy? Am I missing something? Just wondering

I couldn’t find an explanation, but sorry if this is already discussed. 

George sometimes chooses to keep things questionable.  Now where is that birth certificate?

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20 hours ago, weirwoodhood said:

It says he was born in 276. (World of Ice and Fire Aerys chapter)

Few pages later in Year of False Spring chapter, which was 281. Viserys would be 5. 

It says “Prince Viserys was but seven years of age”. 

Why this 2 year discrepancy? Am I missing something? Just wondering

I couldn’t find an explanation, but sorry if this is already discussed. 

Seems a clear mistake :)  I'm not sure if later prints have corrected this already.. Perhaps @Ran knows? Or @zionius could check the ebook?

 

5 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Ah, that’s the spelling! Cheers. 

:cheers: :)

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13 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Seems a clear mistake :)  I'm not sure if later prints have corrected this already.. Perhaps @Ran knows? Or @zionius could check the ebook?

 

:cheers: :)

:cheers:

I did check the ebook... no idea if it was later corrected. 

Aerys II

“Prince Viserys, born in 276 AC, was small but robust, and as beautiful a child as King’s Landing had ever seen.”

The Year of the False Spring

“Had any whiff of proof come into their hands to show that Prince Rhaegar was conspiring against his father, King Aerys’s loyalists would most certainly have used it to bring about the prince’s downfall. Indeed, certain of the king’s men had even gone so far as to suggest that Aerys should disinherit his “disloyal” son, and name his younger brother heir to the Iron Throne in his stead. Prince Viserys was but seven years of age, and his eventual ascension would certainly mean a regency, wherein they themselves would rule as regents.
In such a climate, it was scarce surprising that Lord Whent’s great tournament excited much suspicion. Lord Chelsted urged His Grace to forbid it, and Lord Staunton went even further, suggesting a prohibition against all tourneys.”

 

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I mean I can see where the math error has come in. (I've been spending a good fourth of my hyperfocuses lately trying to expand @Rhaenys_Targaryen's close to four year old math about Robb and Jon's birthdays)  keeping the dates clear for 279-284 is almost impossible. (I say almost because when I'm hyper focusing things make sense, then I don't write enough down.) It's very likely someone writing that passage did the math for how old Viserys was when he fled KL and something got moved out or copied wrong to put that number there. It's probably up there with why we don't know what turn Aegon was born or how Rhaenys being 3 during the Sack of KL means that it took place in at least 9.283. 

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Aerys II

“Prince Viserys, born in 276 AC, was small but robust, and as beautiful a child as King’s Landing had ever seen.”

The Year of the False Spring

“Had any whiff of proof come into their hands to show that Prince Rhaegar was conspiring against his father, King Aerys’s loyalists would most certainly have used it to bring about the prince’s downfall. Indeed, certain of the king’s men had even gone so far as to suggest that Aerys should disinherit his “disloyal” son, and name his younger brother heir to the Iron Throne in his stead. Prince Viserys was but seven years of age, and his eventual ascension would certainly mean a regency, wherein they themselves would rule as regents.

I get it. There's no mistake. People just misinterpreted what is written there.

Even though "Prince Viserys was but seven years of age" is written in a section of "The Year of the False Spring", it doesn't actually mean, that he was 7 years old in 281. Read again, what exactly is written there, what's the meaning of it.

The meaning of that is this - Prince Viserys was but seven years of age, when he was named Aerys' heir, and that was in 283.

He was born in 276, and in 283 he was 7. So there's no mistake.

AGOT, Dany I: "Viserys had been a boy of eight when they fled King's Landing to escape the advancing armies of the Usurper, but Daenerys had been only a quickening in their mother's womb."

They were escaping from King's Landing in 283. "A boy of eight" doesn't mean, that Viserys at that time was 8 years old, it means, that he was 7 years and several months old, that his 7th birthday has already happened in 283, and he was living thru 8th year of his life.

Readers misinterpreted what was written in the section of False Spring, because author wrote there about events from two diferrent times. Same as he wrote about Rhaegar departing from Dragonstone in the beginning of 282, and then in the same entry about Rhaegar kidnapping Lyanna, which happened many months later. But because those two events were written together, people misinterpreted them as events, that had happened close in time to each other. Same as events from the time of the False Spring, and events of Robert's Rebellion, when in 283 Aerys's people suggested to him to disinherit Rhaegar, and name 7yo Viserys as his heir.

Edited by Megorova

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On 4/9/2019 at 11:57 AM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Seems a clear mistake :)  I'm not sure if later prints have corrected this already.. Perhaps @Ran knows? Or @zionius could check the ebook?

 

:cheers: :)

Both the ebook and my revised edition of TWoI&F have this in it.

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On 4/8/2019 at 3:15 PM, weirwoodhood said:

It says he was born in 276. (World of Ice and Fire Aerys chapter)

Few pages later in Year of False Spring chapter, which was 281. Viserys would be 5. 

It says “Prince Viserys was but seven years of age”. 

Why this 2 year discrepancy? Am I missing something? Just wondering

I couldn’t find an explanation, but sorry if this is already discussed. 

yet another clue in lemon gate and proof that R+L=J is false 

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On 4/10/2019 at 11:40 AM, Megorova said:

Readers misinterpreted what was written in the section of False Spring, because author wrote there about events from two diferrent times. Same as he wrote about Rhaegar departing from Dragonstone in the beginning of 282, and then in the same entry about Rhaegar kidnapping Lyanna, which happened many months later. But because those two events were written together, people misinterpreted them as events, that had happened close in time to each other. Same as events from the time of the False Spring, and events of Robert's Rebellion, when in 283 Aerys's people suggested to him to disinherit Rhaegar, and name 7yo Viserys as his heir.

I disagree with the second sentence mostly. Littlefinger's age calculation and some of the events calculation pages on the wiki actually allow for the possibility that Lyanna was kidnapped sometime within the first five months of the year 282, that Brandon dueled Littlefinger in that same period of time, that Brandon went to KL around month 5-6, and that Rickard and Brandon died around month 6-8. and that the Rebellion began about month 9-10 of 282 (KL's Sack had to take place at least month 9 of 283) 

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43 minutes ago, CAllDSmith said:

Lyanna was kidnapped sometime within the first five months of the year 282, that Brandon dueled Littlefinger in that same period of time, that Brandon went to KL around month 5-6, and that Rickard and Brandon died around month 6-8. and that the Rebellion began about month 9-10 of 282 (KL's Sack had to take place at least month 9 of 283) 

My calculations are different. I think, that Tournament at Harrenhal happened sometime around Halloween (it lasted 10 days, and one of them was October 31st), Lyanna was kidnapped less than a year after that tournament, in second half of September; Rickard and Brandon died in the middle of October; Jon was conceived on Christmas Eve, and was born between September 23 and October 23; according to GRRM, Jon is 8-9 months older than Dany, so she was born between May 21 and June 21 (that's because I think that they are Libra and Gemini, Air signs of Zodiac <- it's all connected to Starfall and Lightbringer (Dawn sword of Daynes) - guardian planet of Libra is Venus, which is called Morning Star, and in Latin - lucifer/lightbringer. So Jon, who is Libra, is Azor Ahai reborn, and future Sword of the Morning). Rhaella and Viserys were sent to Dragonstone 9 months prior Dany's birth, and shortly after their departure happened Sack of KL. After the Sack and prior Jon's birth, Ned needed time to go from KL to Storm's End, and then from there to Dorne, so it's more likely, that Jon was born approximately 1 month after the Sack and 8 months prior Dany's birth. Thus, the Sack happened in August, Jon was born in September 283, and Dany in June 284.

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3 minutes ago, Megorova said:

My calculations are different. I think, that Tournament at Harrenhal happened sometime around Halloween (it lasted 10 days, and one of them was October 31st), Lyanna was kidnapped less than a year after that tournament, in second half of September; Rickard and Brandon died in the middle of October; Jon was conceived on Christmas Eve, and was born between September 23 and October 23; according to GRRM, Jon is 8-9 months older than Dany, so she was born between May 21 and June 21 (that's because I think that they are Libra and Gemini, Air signs of Zodiac <- it's all connected to Starfall and Lightbringer (Dawn sword of Daynes) - guardian planet of Libra is Venus, which is called Morning Star, and in Latin - lucifer/lightbringer. So Jon, who is Libra, is Azor Ahai reborn, and future Sword of the Morning). Rhaella and Viserys were sent to Dragonstone 9 months prior Dany's birth, and shortly after their departure happened Sack of KL. After the Sack and prior Jon's birth, Ned needed time to go from KL to Storm's End, and then from there to Dorne, so it's more likely, that Jon was born approximately 1 month after the Sack and 8 months prior Dany's birth. Thus, the Sack happened in August, Jon was born in September 283, and Dany in June 284.

There's two problems with you math. 1. Jon and Dany cannot be Libra's or Gemini or anything that has to do with astrology. Because they weren't born on Earth, so none of that has any actual application. Along with all of the other issues related to calculating that (Why aren't you using the Julian calendar? Are you using the old or new determination for dates? There's 7 visible planets in the night sky. etc.) 2.) Rhaegar and Elia were married in 280. Rhaenys was born in 280, and then Elia was bedridden for six months. That puts us at 3.281. You're right about Harrenhal being around the 10th month because the False Spring only lasted two turns. Aegon was also born with the "Coming of the New Year" and Rhaegar was not at King's Landing or Dragonstone when Aerys was using wildfire to keep out the cold. 

Because of this the Sack has to have happened in 9.283. And if Jon was born a month after the Sack, then he's born at the earliest in 10.283. Your math on when Lyanna was kidnapped and Brandon and Rickard died does not line up with how old Baelish was when Brandon cut him up. There also the issue of Robb and when his nameday falls in comparison to Jon's. Robb's earliest month of birth is 9.283. Ned also had time to go to Starfall, get Jon from wherever, go to King's Landing, go to White Harbor, possibly go to Barrowton, and get Jon and his wet nurse set up in Winterfell, before Catelyn could make the trip from Riverrun to Winterfell. This also ties into who Jon's parents are. 

If it's Ashara (As you seem to think it is based on your Sword of the Morning line.) then there's two credible options.

B+A=J means that the latest Jon could have been conceived is 10.283 (according to your math.) and then he would have been born in July. 

E+A=J means that he would have had to have been conceived shortly after Ned and Catelyn were married i.e. 1-2.283 and he still would have been born 9 to 10.283 (The one part we've agreed upon.)  This math works the same if his mother is Wylla.  

If R+L=J however then Jon has no way of being the Sword of the Morning, has three Valyrian steel swords he either owns or might inherit, and if your 12.182 conception date were true, then he would be older than Robb and no one could think that Ned cheated on Catelyn, and the only possible person Ned could have passed off as the mother would be some fisherman's daughter in the Sisters. 

But really my biggest issue is that you're calculating events based on astrology using months and holidays and dates we either know Planetos doesn't have, or we can't even be sure they have.  

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, CAllDSmith said:

There's two problems with you math. 1. Jon and Dany cannot be Libra's or Gemini or anything that has to do with astrology. Because they weren't born on Earth, so none of that has any actual application.

But there is Astronomy and constellations in ASOIAF. Some stars and constellations, that are visible from one planet, could be also seen from a different planet. So it's likely, that some of ASOIAF's constellations are "ours" constellations.

For example, could be that Moonmaid is Virgo. "According to the wildlings, if the red wanderer is visible within the Moonmaid, it is a good time to steal a woman." Red wandered is visible with naked eye, so could be, that it's Morning Star Venus, not Mars like it's written in the Wiki -> "Coloured red, it is associated with the Smith god by the Faith of the Seven.[1]It therefore seems to be an analog to Mars." Mars or Ares was God of War, while the Smith was Hephaestus (the Greek god of blacksmiths, metalworking, carpenters, craftsmen, artisans, sculptors, metallurgy, fire, and volcanoes). His wife was goddess of love and beauty - Aphrodite or Roman Venus. So wildlings' "red wanderer in Moonmaid" could be ours "Venus in Virgo".

Also, don't you think, that description of Libra's personality does match Jon's character, and Gemini's description matches Dany's personality? No?

16 hours ago, CAllDSmith said:

Are you using the old or new determination for dates?

New and "American" (because GRRM is from USA, so he was using for basis dates of USA's holidays), i.e. - Christmas Eve - December 24th, Harvest Feast of ASOIAF / American Thanksgiving - fourth Thursday of November, New Year's Eve - December 31st, etc.

16 hours ago, CAllDSmith said:

Rhaegar and Elia were married in 280. Rhaenys was born in 280, and then Elia was bedridden for six months. That puts us at 3.281.

Aegon was born either in the end of December, or in the beginning of January. Full-term pregnancy lasts 280 days, or 40 weeks, or 9 months and 10 more days. It is known, that Aegon was conceived, when his parents were at King's Landing, so it was 6+ months after Rhaenys' birth.

If Aegon was born in late December, then he was conceived in the middle of March. If Rhaenys was born 6 months before that, then she was born in the middle of September, which means, that Rhaegar's and Elia's wedding happened in early January of 280.

Also, when Rhaenys was killed during the Sack of KL, she still was two years old, which means, that the Sack happened before her third birthday, so the Sack happened before the middle of September.

16 hours ago, CAllDSmith said:

If it's Ashara (As you seem to think it is based on your Sword of the Morning line.) then there's two credible options.

I don't think, that it's Ashara. No no no.

Jon could become next Sword of the Morning, even though he is not a member of House Dayne, because he is 1/8 Dayne, thru his great great grandmother Dyanna Dayne. If there's certain blood-based magic in that sword, then he (the sword) wouldn't care what's the surname of his carrier, what he will care is his blood, and by blood Jon is partially Dayne.

16 hours ago, CAllDSmith said:

If R+L=J however then Jon has no way of being the Sword of the Morning, has three Valyrian steel swords he either owns or might inherit, and if your 12.182 conception date were true, then he would be older than Robb and no one could think that Ned cheated on Catelyn, and the only possible person Ned could have passed off as the mother would be some fisherman's daughter in the Sisters. 

Jon is a month or two older than Robb, that's why Cat always hated him so much. Because if Ned ever decided to legitimize Jon as his son, then Jon, not Robb, would have became next Lord of Winterfell. And Jon's children would have been next in line of inheritance, which would have deprived Cat's children of everything.

16 hours ago, CAllDSmith said:

But really my biggest issue is that you're calculating events based on astrology using months and holidays and dates we either know Planetos doesn't have, or we can't even be sure they have. 

I think, that GRRM didn't invented his own calendar and "clock", and that he is using real world as a basis. So a day in ASOIAF-world lasts 24 hours, a month has a different length, same as in our world, and the exact number of days depends on a moon's turn, in some months it's 30 days, in some it's 31, or 29. He's using real world as a basis.

And about holidays, lets take Harvest Feast for example - it's a celebration, which takes place after gathering of harvest, and it takes place close to the end of the year (in last quarter), which is similar to Thanksgiving.

Edited by Megorova

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29 minutes ago, Megorova said:

But there is Astronomy and constellations in ASOIAF. Some stars and constellations, that are visible from one planet, could be also seen from a different planet. So it's likely, that some of ASOIAF's constellations are "ours" constellations.

No it isn't. There is literally no evidence to suggest that Planetos is in our universe or an analog there of for many reasons, including 1. The existence of magic 2. The existence of creatures that defy biological and physical laws 3. Volcanic activity not related to any feasible plate tectonics 4. It is a fantasy series ergo it need not be within our cosmos and there needs to be demonstratable proof that it is in order for your point to be "likely" 

42 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Also, don't you think, that description of Libra's personality does match Jon's character, and Gemini's description matches Dany's personality? No?

Regardless of whether or not their personalities line up with falsely perceived personality traits based on when a person was born, just because someone's personality is perceived to line up with something doesn't mean it's true. Add in the Barnum/Forer effect and the fact that Earth astrology has no perceivable impact on astrology on a fictional planet and this still has no

 

53 minutes ago, Megorova said:

New and "American" (because GRRM is from USA, so he was using for basis dates of USA's holidays), i.e. - Christmas Eve - December 24th, Harvest Feast of ASOIAF / American Thanksgiving - fourth Thursday of November, New Year's Eve - December 31st, etc.

. This is just another example of begging the question. Along with other general fallacies and unsupported evidence. Being from America doesn't preclude GRRM from looking up and using other calculations, nor is there a Christmas Eve equivalent mentioned in the books, Harvest Feasts have been had in cultures around the world for thousands of years, and yes the day before the new year is typically the last day of year before because that's how circles work. Planetos/Westeros don't even have some of the dates you're mentioning. All we know about the calendar is that it has twelve months, not that those months alternate 31/30 every other month save February, or that the months are even accurate to the position of Planetos around the sun. 

 

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

Aegon was born either in the end of December, or in the beginning of January. Full-term pregnancy lasts 280 days, or 40 weeks, or 9 months and 10 more days. It is known, that Aegon was conceived, when his parents were at King's Landing, so it was 6+ months after Rhaenys' birth.

If Aegon was born in late December, then he was conceived in the middle of March. If Rhaenys was born 6 months before that, then she was born in the middle of September, which means, that Rhaegar's and Elia's wedding happened in early January of 280.

Yes that is exactly what I'm saying. Only I'm not using the names of months that don't exist in Westeros named after people who were never born. There's no January because there's no Latin for door; there's no February because there is no Roman februum; there's no March because there is no Mars; there's no May because there is no goddess Maia; no June because there is no Junia or Juno; no July because there is no Julius; no August because Augustus never existed, maybe there's a September, October, November, and December but they're the seventh, eighth, ninth, and tenth turns if they are called that. (Which is a whole other thing about how if they're counting by moon's turns there should probably be thirteen months in a calendar year even if there are only 12 months in a solar year.) 

 

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

Also, when Rhaenys was killed during the Sack of KL, she still was two years old, which means, that the Sack happened before her third birthday, so the Sack happened before the middle of September.

No she was three, That's how old Ned says she was, how old Tyrion said she was, how old Yandel said she was, no one describes her as being two. So per your own admission the Sack of King's Landing had to happen in the middle of September. 

 

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

I don't think, that it's Ashara. No no no.

Jon could become next Sword of the Morning, even though he is not a member of House Dayne, because he is 1/8 Dayne, thru his great great grandmother Dyanna Dayne. If there's certain blood-based magic in that sword, then he (the sword) wouldn't care what's the surname of his carrier, what he will care is his blood, and by blood Jon is partially Dayne.

Okay so this chart was actually fun to make so I'm gonna show it to you.  

Maekar Targaryen + Dyanna Dayne 

Maekar is 1/4 Targ, 1/4 Rogare, and 1/2 Martell (Both of Maekar's grandparents were half-Targ, half-Rogare.) 

For the benefit of the doubt lets say Dyanna is somehow 1/1 Dayne. 

Aegon is now 1/8 Targ, 1/8 Rogare, 2/8 Martell, and 4/8 Dayne 

For Betha Blackwood let's go with a pet theory that her mother was Mya or Gwenys Rivers.  That makes Betha 1/8 Targ, 1/8 Rogare and up to 6/8 Blackwood 

Jaehaerys II and Shaera are then 1/8 Targ, 1/8 Rogare, 1/8 Martell, 2/8 Dayne, 3/8 Blackwood 

Aerys II and Rhaella are then also 1/8 Targ, 1/8 Rogare, 1/8 Martell, 2/8 DAyne, 3/8 Blackwood 

Rhaegar is ALSO 1/8 Targ, 1/8 Rogare, 1/8 Martell, 2/8 Dayne, 3/8 Blackwood (Isn't incest fun?) 

Now there's Lyanna who we also have a nice family tree for. 

Rickon Stark 1/2 Stark, 1/2 Locke + Gilliane Glover who like Dyanna let's assume is 2/2 Glover 

Cregan Stark is now 1/4 Stark 1/4 Locke, 1/2 Glover + Lynara Stark who is at best 3/4 Stark, 1/4 Karstark

Brandon Stark is now 4/8 Stark, 1/8 Locke, 1/8 Karstark, 2/8 Glover + Alys Karstark who let's assume is 8/8 Karstark

Beron Stark is now 4/16 Stark, 1/16 Locke, 9/16 Karstark, 2/16 Glover + Lorra Royce who again let's go 8/8 Royce 

Rodrik the Wandering Wolf is now 4/32 Stark, 1/32 Locke, 9/32 Karstark, 2/32 Glover, 16/32 Royce + Arya Flint (32/32 Flint) 

Lyarra Stark is now 4/64 Stark, 1/64 Locke, 9/64 Karstark, 2/64 Glover, 16/64 Royce, and 32/64 Flint when she marries Rickard Stark who has his own fun tree. 

William Stark is the same as Rodrik: 4/32 Stark, 1/32 Locke, 9/32 Karstark, 2/32 Glover, 16/32 Royce + Melantha Blackwood who is possibly 16/32 Blackwood 8/32 Targaryen, 8/32 Rogare (Let's assume that for the fun of it.) 

Edwyle Stark is now 4/64 Stark, 1/64 Locke, 9/64 Karstark, 2/64 Glover, 16/64 Royce, 16/64 Blackwood, 8/64 Targaryen, 8/64 Rogare when he marries Marna Locke (64/64 Locke) 

Rickard Stark is now 50.7% Locke, 3.1 % Stark, 7% Karstark, 1.5% Glover, 12.5% Royce, 12.5% Blackwood, 6.25% Targ, 6.25% Rogare 

Lyanna Stark is now 66/256 Locke, 12/256 Stark, 27/256 Karstark, 6/256 Glover, 48/256 Royce, 8/256 Targ, 8/256 Rogare, 16/256 Blackwood, and 64/ 256 Flint add with Rhaegar's 32/256 Targ, 32/256 Rogare, 32/256 Martell, 64/256 Dayne, 96/256 Blackwood. 

So Jon Snow would be 40/512 Targaryen, 40/512 Rogare, 12/512 Stark, 27/512 Karstark, 6/512 Glover, 48/512 Royce, 64/512 Flint, 66/512 Locke, 32/512 Martell, 64/512 Dayne, 112/512 Blackwood OR: 7.8% Targ, 7.8% Rogare, 5.2% Karstark, 1.1% Glover, 9.3% Royce, 12.5% Flint, 12.8% Locke, 6.2 % Martell, 12.5% Dayne, 21.8% Blackwood. 

This tells us many things including 1. Jon in theory has more kinship with the Flints of the mountains, the Locke's of Oldcastle, and the Blackwoods than he does with the Targaryens or Starks. 2. Jon has more right to wear a raven cloak than wield Dawn 3. At no point has it ever been suggested that Dawn works on some kind of blood magic or that someone who is not of the male line of House Dayne can be named Sword of the Morning. 4. That Jon probably has less dragon in his blood than Quentyn Martell did 5. Incest makes math easier. 

2 hours ago, Megorova said:

Jon is a month or two older than Robb, that's why Cat always hated him so much. Because if Ned ever decided to legitimize Jon as his son, then Jon, not Robb, would have became next Lord of Winterfell. And Jon's children would have been next in line of inheritance, which would have deprived Cat's children of everything.

This makes no sense. Catelyn clearly think Ned fathered Jon on the campaign after the wedding, Ned's lies clearly say that he dishonored Cat after the wedding, and furthermore it's never stated that Robb is a month or two younger than Jon. I'm not saying he isn't younger than Jon, I'm saying that no one but Ned Stark and Howland Reed would know that. Which means either Jon is younger than Robb (Which is possible based on various factors.) or Ned has been making Jon celebrate the wrong name day his whole life. 

2 hours ago, Megorova said:

I think, that GRRM didn't invented his own calendar and "clock", and that he is using real world as a basis. So a day in ASOIAF-world lasts 24 hours, a month has a different length, same as in our world, and the exact number of days depends on a moon's turn, in some months it's 30 days, in some it's 31, or 29. He's using real world as a basis.

And about holidays, lets take Harvest Feast for example - it's a celebration, which takes place after gathering of harvest, and it takes place close to the end of the year (in last quarter), which is similar to Thanksgiving.

GRRM very clearly didn't invent a calendar at all. Otherwise we wouldn't all be bouncing around trying to figure out how some who is "shy of thirty" in early 298 could be "scarce fifteen" at any point in 282. Or George wouldn't consistently give vague statements for how long time has passed or what happens when. If George had any kind of developed calendar besides "12 months in a solar year." It would have been included in World.  Of course he's using the real world as a basis, he's writing for people in the real world and he's not a mathematician or insane like Brandon Sanderson. If I told you a year had passed you'd know I meant the Earth has gone around the sun one time, that the moon had gone around the earth approximately 365 times, Except that they're using a lunar calendar not a solar one, which means (If the Moon of Planetos is approximate in size to our Moon, and if Planetos is approximate in size to Earth two things we CANNOT take for granted.) the turns would be about 29/30 days each, and they would be off by at least 254 years if there are no leap days or intercalary months added. 

Again using the harvest feast as an example, every culture in the world has a harvest feast. Not just America's Thanksgiving and they 100% had harvest feasts during the time periods GRRM is taking inspiration from. They could have varied from August to November, and indeed they do throughout the world. The harvest feast we see is obviously not an annual event as we only see one when we should have seen at least two and it is clearly based around the coming of autumn not the end of a year. 

Either way, none of this justifies using a real world pseudoscience (I'm not denying that Planetos has some equivalent of the pseudoscience, only that it has not been shown to be used like you are using astrology, which would have been a big plot point if it was.) based on names and dates for months that don't exist, surrounded by significant holidays based on events that don't exist (Jon Snow being conceived around the date when Christians venerate the birth of Jesus while also knowing that Jesus was not actually born then.) in order to create fallacious arguments about when events occurred counter to the evidence we actually have. 

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18 hours ago, CAllDSmith said:

No she was three, That's how old Ned says she was, how old Tyrion said she was, how old Yandel said she was, no one describes her as being two. So per your own admission the Sack of King's Landing had to happen in the middle of September

Ok, but if Elia's first pregnancy wasn't full-term, then Rhaenys was born earlier than in the middle of September, like in the beginning of September, or even in the middle of August. So she turned three, and shortly after that the city was sacked, a month or a week or so after her birthday. But even though Rhaenys' birthday could have been earlier than in the middle of September, it doesn't influence, when was Aegon born/conceived, because it is known, that after Rhaenys' birth, Elia was bedridden for 6 months, which doesn't mean, that Aegon was conceived exactly 6 months after Rhaenys' birth. She could have been born in August, and Aegon could have been conceived 7 months later (still) in March of 281 (same as in previous calculation). Or it's possible, that Aegon was conceived 8 months after Rhaenys' birth, in April of 281, and that Elia again had a non-full-term pregnancy, that lasted 8 months, but Aegon still was born in December of 281.

Thus, even though we do have some information, on which we could base our calculations, it is still not definite, when exactly happened the Sack of KL. It could have happened anytime between the middle of August and the middle of September, or even the end of September, and Jon still could be Libra (:)), because dates of Libra's birth is September 23 - October 23. I still insist, that Jon is Libra, i.e., that he was born either in 9th or 10th moon turn of 283, and that there was approximately one month between the Sack and Jon's birth, which makes Dany 8 months younger than Jon, so if he is Libra, then she is Gemini. :) I insist. I still think, that GRRM did used Libra / guardian planet Venus / Morning Star / lucifer - Lightbringer / Dawn of Daynes / Sword of the Morning / Jon was conceived at Starfall in 12th moon's turn of 282, and was born in 9th or 10th moon's turn of 283, which makes him a Libra (in our world).

18 hours ago, CAllDSmith said:

12.5% Dayne

This tells us many things including 1. Jon in theory has more kinship with the Flints of the mountains, the Locke's of Oldcastle, and the Blackwoods than he does with the Targaryens or Starks. 2. Jon has more right to wear a raven cloak than wield Dawn 3. At no point has it ever been suggested that Dawn works on some kind of blood magic or that someone who is not of the male line of House Dayne can be named Sword of the Morning. 4. That Jon probably has less dragon in his blood than Quentyn Martell did 5. Incest makes math easier. 

Robert Baratheon was only 12.5% Targaryen, which was enough for him to claim Targaryen crown. Yes, he additionally gained Iron Throne thru right of conquest, but he still needed some sort of legal basis for getting Targ-crown. And maesters of 7K used as that basis Robert's 12.5% Targaryen blood.

If for inhabitants of 7K, 12.5% was enough to acknowledge Robert's right to take that crown, then for Daynes it also should be enough, that Jon is 12.5% Dayne. So, if they will know, who he really is, then they will let him have Dawn, and to become Sword of the Morning, even though he is not a Dayne from male line (Robert was 12.5% Targ thru female line).

18 hours ago, CAllDSmith said:

The harvest feast we see is obviously not an annual event as we only see one when we should have seen at least two and it is clearly based around the coming of autumn not the end of a year. 

They held harvest feast, after they gather harvest, and they do it not only in autumn. Latest summer lasted for 10 years, so what, they weren't gathering harvests for all of those 10 years, just because it was not autumn-time? No autumn means no harvesting means no Harvest Feast? Unlikely. So it's an annual event, and it's not based on the current season.

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, CAllDSmith said:

No she was three, That's how old Ned says she was, how old Tyrion said she was, how old Yandel said she was, no one describes her as being two.

Wrong.

This is info about Rhaenys, I checked all of those links, and more.

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Rhaenys_Targaryen_(daughter_of_Rhaegar)

Her age at the time of her death is not mentioned by Yandel in the World book.

"He sent his pregnant queen, Rhaella, and his younger son and new heir, Viserys, away to Dragonstone, but Princess Elia was forced to remain in King’s Landing with Rhaegar’s children as a hostage against Dorne. ...  The Red Keep was soon breached, but in the chaos, misfortune soon fell upon Elia of Dorne and her children, Rhaenys and Aegon. It is tragic that the blood spilled in war may as readily be innocent as it is guilty, and that those who ravished and murdered Princess Elia escaped justice. It is not known who murdered Princess Rhaenys in her bed, or smashed the infant Prince Aegon’s head against a wall. Some whisper it was done at Aerys’s own command when he learned that Lord Lannister had taken up Robert’s cause, while others suggest that Elia did it herself for fear of what would happen to her children in the hands of her dead husband’s enemies."

No age given.

(It was not Tyrion, who commented about her age, it was Tywin in Tyrion's POV-chapter) And what Tywin said (in ASOS, Tyrion VI) is:

"Ser Amory was almost as bestial with Rhaenys. I asked him afterward why it had required half a hundred thrusts to kill a girl of . . . two? Three? He said she'd kicked him and would not stop screaming."

He's not sure, how old she was at that time, either she was still 2, or already turned 3.

In AGOT Eddard II,

"He remembered the angry words they had exchanged when Tywin Lannister had presented Robert with the corpses of Rhaegar's wife and children as a token of fealty. Ned had named that murder; Robert called it war. When he had protested that the young prince and princess were no more than babes, his new-made king had replied, "I see no babes. Only dragonspawn." "

No age mentioned.

In AGOT Eddard XII,

"Yet last night he had dreamt of Rhaegar's children. Lord Tywin had laid the bodies beneath the Iron Throne, wrapped in the crimson cloaks of his house guard. That was clever of him; the blood did not show so badly against the red cloth. The little princess had been barefoot, still dressed in her bed gown, and the boy . . . the boy . . ."

No age mentioned.

In AGOT Eddard XV, Rhaenys was mentioned by Varys, but he didn't said how old she was, only that "Rhaenys was a child too. Prince Rhaegar's daughter. A precious little thing, younger than your girls."

In ASOS Tyrion IX (66) - "Ser Amory dragged Princess Rhaenys out from under her father’s bed and stabbed her to death. He had some men-at-arms with him, but I do not know their names.” He leaned forward. “It was Ser Gregor Clegane who smashed Prince Aegon’s head against a wall and raped your sister Elia with his blood and brains still on his hands."

No age mentioned.

No age mentioned in Griffin Reborn chapter, and in Aryanne's chapter in Winds, she said "I was seven when Elia died. They say I held her daughter Rhaenys once, when I was too young to remember. Aegon will be a stranger to me, whether true or false." We don't know, when is Aryanne's birthday in relation to Rhaenys' birthday, whether it's earlier or later in the year, so Aryanne, being 7 years old at the time of Rhaenys' death, provides us with zero useful information.

In So Spake Martin, the age of children isn't mentioned, same as in chapter The End of the World book. And there's no chapter "Rhaenys Targaryen" in the world book, even though in Wikia there is posted citation 2. in References.

I checked those 11 links, and run a number of various searches thru https://asearchoficeandfire.com/

No precise age anywhere. And approximate age mentioned once (by Tywin).

So the only info we do have about Rhaenys' age at the time of her death is Tywins' unsure "a girl of . . . two? Three?"

Edited by Megorova

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1 hour ago, Megorova said:

In So Spake Martin, the age of children isn't mentioned, same as in chapter The End of the World book. And there's no chapter "Rhaenys Targaryen" in the world book, even though in Wikia there is posted citation 2. in References.

George R. R. Martin's A World of Ice and Fire is a reference to the mobile app (which has an entry for Rhaenys), not the World Book.

For what it's worth, the entry in the app states she was three years old when she died.

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