What Keeping the Blood Pure, Actually Looks Like

[Megorova]

On 4/17/2019 at 6:01 PM, CAllDSmith said:

Likely as it may be we cannot take Viserys Plumm being Aegon's child as fact. Aegon's mistresses obviously coincide with his sister-wife. You are correct that Aegon did have sex with other women besides his wife and mistresses. Though the nature of Yandel's history of the mistresses would suggest he never went back. 

 But in the books there are evidences of the opposite.

Aegon stayed one night at Butterwell's castle, on the same night impregnated Butterwell's three daughters, and gave for it dragon egg to him. That Lord Butterwell's grandson, Ambrose Butterwell, was 50 years old in 212 at the time of his wedding at Whitewalls, when took place Second Blackfyre Rebellion. So Ambrose was born in 161 or 162.

• His hair was flaxen-colored (blond).
• He owned Targaryen dragon egg, that was given to his grandfather, when his daughters were impregnated by Aegon.
• Aegon made Ambrose master of coin. And later Daeron II made him his Hand of the King.
• During First Blackfyre Rebellion he sent one of his sons to fight for Targaryens, and one for Blackfyres.
• And he wasn't executed by Targaryens, even though he was the host of the Tournament, that was a cover for Second Blackfyre Rebellion.
• And his name fits with "ae" rule - Ambrose.

I'm surprised, that people haven't figured out, that Ambrose Butterweel was Aegon's bastard.

Aegon became King in 172, and made Lord Bracken, father of his pregnant mistress, Barba Bracken, the King's Hand. When later that year Brackens were sent away from court, Aegon made Ambrose's grandfather his Hand. In 178 Aegon made Lucas Lothston his new Hand, in exchange for sex with Lucas's wife and daughter. After Lucas' dismissal from court, Aegon's next Hand became Jon Hightower, who brought to Aegon Serenei of Lys.

172 Lord Bracken - Barba - Aegor - King's Hand

... Lord Butterwell - his daughter - Ambrose - King's Hand

178 Lord Lothston - Jeyne - Manfred - King's Hand

... Lord Hightower - Serenei - Shiera - King's Hand

Aegon was giving title of his Hand, to whoever was his pimp. And it's unlikely, that he was rewarding those guys for their past services. So, even though Aegon impregnated Butterwell's daughters back in 161 or 162, he made Butterwell King's Hand after 172. Which means, that at that time, while Butterwell was his Hand, Aegon resumed sexual relationship with the mother of his bastard-son Ambrose.

Which is an evidence, that Aegon did went back to women, with whom he was before.

(And Ambrose was Butterwell, because prior his birth, his grandfather married his mother to her cousin, who was also a Butterwell.)

On 4/17/2019 at 6:01 PM, CAllDSmith said:

We honestly do not know where the three Otherys children grew up, though considering they are not called Waters and were not considered among the Great Bastards we can guess that they were probably born in Braavos or raised with Bellegere on her ships.

Shiera Seastar was not a Waters, and she also wasn't raised in Braavos, or on a ship. 

Bellegere's three children were actually not Otheryses, I was just calling them that for convenience.

The World Book: "Children by the Black Pearl: Bellenora, Narha, Balerion."

No last names given.

AFFC, Cat of the Canals: " "The Black Pearl," she told them. Merry claimed the Black Pearl was the most famous courtesan of all. "She's descended from the dragons, that one," the woman had told Cat. "The first Black Pearl was a pirate queen. A Westerosi prince took her for a lover and got a daughter on her, who grew up to be a courtesan. Her own daughter followed her, and her daughter after her, until you get to this one. What did she say to you, Cat?" "

No last names given.

So it's equally likely, that they were born and raised at King's Landing. And they were not concidered to be the Great Bastards, because mothers of Great Bastards were noble women, and Bellegere wasn't noble.

On 4/17/2019 at 6:01 PM, CAllDSmith said:

As for Aegon's timeline, we no he was sent away in 161 to avoid him abusing Naerys. We also have no evidence of him returning to King's Landing until 169/170 when Daemon was impregnated. Aegor Rivers came into the world a fortnight before Daenaerys in 172, so "ten years" could be 161-170 or thereabout depending on if Bellegere visited him in KL. Since Naerys didn't get pregnant again until after Baelor died we can guess (but again not know.) that Aegon was not near her during that period of time. 

It would have been absurd, to keep Aegon for 10 years away from 7K. Baelor wasn't going to have kids. So to Small Council, including King's Hand Viserys, it was obvious, that sooner or later Aegon is going to become King. Baelor's heir was Viserys, and Aegon was Viserys' first son, and his other son was already a member of Kingsguard at that time. Aegon was future of their dynasty, so there's no way, that they let him stay abroad for 10 years.

On 4/17/2019 at 6:01 PM, CAllDSmith said:

Since we know that Aegon had Merry Meg as his mistress from 155-158, and that he had Cassella Vaith from about then until 161 and we know that he only visited Harrenhal for about the years 151-153, that Jeyne was born in 162 per the wiki (the number you actually corrected me on.) There is no evidence for Jeyne being Aegon's get. 

There's no evidences for Jeyne being Lucas' child.

Aegon impregnated Lord Butterwell's three daughters. Lord Butterwell's grandson, Ambrose, was born in 161 or 162 (he was already 50 at the time of Tournament in 212). So his mother and two aunts were impregnated either in 160, or 161, or 162. In 160 and 161 (until death of Daeron I) Aegon was still with Casella. In 161 (after King's Daeron's death) and in 162 Aegon was already with Bellegere. And it is known, that he was still visiting Falena at Harrenhal, at least for two more years after her wedding, in 151-153. Butterweels build Whitewalls on shore of God's Eye, close to Harrenhal.

The question is - why did Aegon came to Butterwells castle in 160, or 161, or 162? Most likelly, Ambrose, who in 212 was 50, was born in 162, so he was conceived either in 161 or in early 162. My guess, is that either Aegon in 161 went to Harrenhal to (more than) say goodbye to Falena, but was instead taken off course by Lord Butterweel and lured into his castle. Or Aegon was visiting Falena in 162, after he returned from Brravos, so she prepared for him a wellcome back party, and introduced him to Butterweel's three daughters. Or, which is most likely, that encounter was arranged by Lucas Lothston the Pander, who was doing his job - providing women to Aegon.

Back to Jeyne. In 178 she was 14. Either at that time, she was 14 and later that same year was going to turn 15 (which means, that year of her birth was 163), or at that time she already had her birthday in 178 (and thus was born in 164). If she was born in 163, then she could have been conceived in 163, or in 162. And 162 coincides with Aegon's Trinity-party with Butterwell-girls.

So, maybe, after Aegon returned from Brravos in 162, he impregnated four women - three Butterwells, and Falena Stokeworth. And maybe Bellegere too.

On 4/17/2019 at 6:01 PM, CAllDSmith said:

LF gives us this history because that's the origin of his House. GRRM also gives us the Starks back to Brandon the Builder, the Targs back to Daenys the Dreamer's father, Baratheon's back to Orys, Martells to Nymeria, the Reach to Garth Greenhand, the Arryns to whoever, the Ironborn to the Grey King etc. That's where they start.  

That's not what I meant. Yes, that's the origin of their House. But why did GRRM wrote/made specifically those three people as LF's ancestors (Baelish, Hedge, Sellsword)? If who they were is insignificant, and wouldn't matter for the further plot of the books, then why didn't he made some random little lord or a knight of 7K as LF's great-grandfather, why instead he made him that guy - Sellsword from Braavos in service of Lord Corbray?

I think, that's because LF's ancestors are important, and his ancestry will play a crutial role in the further plot. Because he is Aegon's descendant, and he is intending to get Iron Throne for himself, and to become King of 7K.

[A Ghost of Someone]

look, people can say what they want but for the last time, inbreeding though animals and humans is a very, very bad idea. Yes, viserys had a traumatic life but life does not seem to be easy for lots and lots of people under these circumstances. It is relative to a point, Everyone has got problems.