The Stone Dragon of Skagos

[kleevedge]

So I believe there is a Dragon living on Skagos. I think this dragon is the one Melisandre refers to as the "Stone Dragon", and "Skagos" means stone in the old tongue. Melisandre mentions her powers are strongest when she arrives at Eastwatch, we know from the warlocks that their powers are strongest in the presence of dragons, Eastwatch is close to Skagos. Now we have the question of where this dragon came from? Well we have 2 dragons missing after a dance of the dragons; Sheepstealer who Nettles rode off to Essos with, and Cannibal, who just seems to have disappeared entirely. Well Cannibal was a wild dragon who was never tamed, and got its name from eating smaller dragons and attacking the hatchery and eating dragon eggs. After the dance it disappeared never to be seen again... at least that's what were told. There is a rumor of the Skagosi being cannibals, I believe this to be a reference to Cannibal living on Skagos. Skagos would be an ideal place for a dragon to go to, it has one of the most abundant sources of sea life, and the land is mountainous and cavernous. The people who live on this Island don't communicate much with the mainland which would keep the story of dragons on Skagos to a minimum, but there are still some rumors. The Skagosi also dwell in caves, which would offer good protection from a dragon. There's stories of ships being lured to their deaths with false lights, dragons breath fire and fire is light. We also have to take into consideration of what Summer/Bran (or Bummer for short) see after the sack of Winterfell, a winged snake whose roar was a river of flame. If the dragon was on Skagos that would explain why there is no real reports of dragons in Westeros being seen. We learned from the fighting pits that dragons are attracted to battle, when Drogon arrived after the fighting had started (though you could say Dany summoned it). I believe there are 2 possibilities on who this dragon is, it's either Cannibal, or an egg that Cannibal had swallowed from the hatcheries that he passed on Skagos and it hatched. Now we have Rickon and Osha supposedly going to Skagos, which gave me an idea. What if the winged wolf that Jojen came to free wasn't Bran at all, but it was Rickon? I understand this theory is pretty crackpot but I feel it does have some validity.

[Platypus Rex]

I believe there is a dragon on Skagos, and a dragon in the Mountains of the Moon, but I also want to believe there are dragons on Dragonstone, with advanced Greyscale, impersonating statues, who will be revived through human sacrifice and evil blood magic.

[Ser Uncle P]

5 hours ago, kleevedge said:

So I believe there is a Dragon living on Skagos. I think this dragon is the one Melisandre refers to as the "Stone Dragon", and "Skagos" means stone in the old tongue. Melisandre mentions her powers are strongest when she arrives at Eastwatch, we know from the warlocks that their powers are strongest in the presence of dragons, Eastwatch is close to Skagos. Now we have the question of where this dragon came from? Well we have 2 dragons missing after a dance of the dragons; Sheepstealer who Nettles rode off to Essos with, and Cannibal, who just seems to have disappeared entirely. Well Cannibal was a wild dragon who was never tamed, and got its name from eating smaller dragons and attacking the hatchery and eating dragon eggs. After the dance it disappeared never to be seen again... at least that's what were told. There is a rumor of the Skagosi being cannibals, I believe this to be a reference to Cannibal living on Skagos. Skagos would be an ideal place for a dragon to go to, it has one of the most abundant sources of sea life, and the land is mountainous and cavernous. The people who live on this Island don't communicate much with the mainland which would keep the story of dragons on Skagos to a minimum, but there are still some rumors. The Skagosi also dwell in caves, which would offer good protection from a dragon. There's stories of ships being lured to their deaths with false lights, dragons breath fire and fire is light. We also have to take into consideration of what Summer/Bran (or Bummer for short) see after the sack of Winterfell, a winged snake whose roar was a river of flame. If the dragon was on Skagos that would explain why there is no real reports of dragons in Westeros being seen. We learned from the fighting pits that dragons are attracted to battle, when Drogon arrived after the fighting had started (though you could say Dany summoned it). I believe there are 2 possibilities on who this dragon is, it's either Cannibal, or an egg that Cannibal had swallowed from the hatcheries that he passed on Skagos and it hatched. Now we have Rickon and Osha supposedly going to Skagos, which gave me an idea. What if the winged wolf that Jojen came to free wasn't Bran at all, but it was Rickon? I understand this theory is pretty crackpot but I feel it does have some validity.

Hmm if Cannibal was still alive, it would be at least Balerion like in size. 

Any hatchlings from the Cannibal would be huge also, being at least 150 years old. 

Skaagos IS very remote, but it would be difficult to keep dragons that size under wraps, especially when Targaryen monarchs were desperate to revive the species. 

 

Mel attributes her increase in powers to the Wall being "one of the hinges of the world" 

 

[rotting sea cow]

1 hour ago, Ser Uncle P said:

Hmm if Cannibal was still alive, it would be at least Balerion like in size. 

Any hatchlings from the Cannibal would be huge also, being at least 150 years old. 

Skaagos IS very remote, but it would be difficult to keep dragons that size under wraps, especially when Targaryen monarchs were desperate to revive the species. 

 

Mel attributes her increase in powers to the Wall being "one of the hinges of the world" 

 

I think the predominant idea is that one or more of the missing dragons are hibernating or petrified by some magic. 

It doesn't mean that the "great stone beast" is one of those, but it's a nice hypothesis.

[Free Northman Reborn]

The World Book says Skagos is a source of obsidian. Meaning volcanoes.

A dragon hibernating in a volcanic cave, life extended by the magic of the nearby Wall? I can see it.

[LynnS]

49 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

The World Book says Skagos is a source of obsidian. Meaning volcanoes.

A dragon hibernating in a volcanic cave, life extended by the magic of the nearby Wall? I can see it.

Well, I wonder if great stone dragon is a euphamism for a volcanic sea mount and waking the dragon means using sorcery to make them active.   I wonder how volcanic activity is related to the fire magic of old Valyria.

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion VIII

And perhaps he was not so wrong. Almost a decade had passed since the Laughing Lion headed out from Lannisport, and Gerion had never returned. The men Lord Tywin sent to seek after him had traced his course as far as Volantis, where half his crew had deserted him and he had bought slaves to replace them. No free man would willingly sign aboard a ship whose captain spoke openly of his intent to sail into the Smoking Sea. "So those are fires of the Fourteen Flames we're seeing, reflected on the clouds?"

"Fourteen or fourteen thousand. What man dares count them? It is not wise for mortals to look too deeply at those fires, my friend. Those are the fires of god's own wrath, and no human flame can match them. We are small creatures, men."

"Some smaller than others." Valyria. It was written that on the day of Doom every hill for five hundred miles had split asunder to fill the air with ash and smoke and fire, blazes so hot and hungry that even the dragons in the sky were engulfed and consumed. Great rents had opened in the earth, swallowing palaces, temples, entire towns. Lakes boiled or turned to acid, mountains burst, fiery fountains spewed molten rock a thousand feet into the air, red clouds rained down dragonglass and the black blood of demons, and to the north the ground splintered and collapsed and fell in on itself and an angry sea came rushing in. The proudest city in all the world was gone in an instant, its fabled empire vanished in a day, the Lands of the Long Summer scorched and drowned and blighted.

 

 

[Mat92]

26 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Well, I wonder if great stone dragon is a euphamism for a volcanic sea mount and waking the dragon means using sorcery to make them active.   I wonder how volcanic activity is related to the fire magic of old Valyria.

 

Woah I never thought of "stone dragons" referring to dormant volcanos before!

Every time Mel or someone talks about stone dragons awakening, what if it refers to volcanoes erupting? It's widely assumed that Valyria was just a chain of volcanos going off, plus there's theories that this may have also happened at Hardhome IIRC?

So the whole "stone dragons awakening" takes on a much more believable meaning now. 

[LynnS]

5 minutes ago, Mat92 said:

Woah I never thought of "stone dragons" referring to dormant volcanos before!

Every time Mel or someone talks about stone dragons awakening, what if it refers to volcanoes erupting? It's widely assumed that Valyria was just a chain of volcanos going off, plus there's theories that this may have also happened at Hardhome IIRC?

So the whole "stone dragons awakening" takes on a much more believable meaning now. 

Dragonstone is an active sea mount and the castle was built with sorcery or is ensorcelled in some way.  I think fire magic is tied to volcanos and their use as a source of magic.  

[Mat92]

1 minute ago, LynnS said:

Dragonstone is an active sea mount and the castle was built with sorcery or is ensorcelled in some way.  I think fire magic is tied to volcanos and their use as a source of magic.  

I'm always so hesitant to speculate on magic in the series, especially fire magic. We know that "magic" exists because there have been countless examples, but when it comes to magic/sorcery on a BIG scale (fire magic awakening volcanoes, horn of winter, etc) I don't want to believe it in the story. I'm worried something like that will be used as a dues ex machina near the end of the story, and honestly dragons alone run that risk. 

But I would be interested in it being revealed in the past, as opposed to something that affects the plot.

[Impbread]

9 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

I believe there is a dragon on Skagos, and a dragon in the Mountains of the Moon, but I also want to believe there are dragons on Dragonstone, with advanced Greyscale, impersonating statues, who will be revived through human sacrifice and evil blood magic.

It would be cool to see a dragon on skagos it would be huge by now too. it would definitely be a game-changer for whoever got control of it if it could be controlled anyway maybe bran will warg it.

[LynnS]

1 minute ago, Mat92 said:

I'm always so hesitant to speculate on magic in the series, especially fire magic. We know that "magic" exists because there have been countless examples, but when it comes to magic/sorcery on a BIG scale (fire magic awakening volcanoes, horn of winter, etc) I don't want to believe it in the story. I'm worried something like that will be used as a dues ex machina near the end of the story, and honestly dragons alone run that risk. 

But I would be interested in it being revealed in the past, as opposed to something that affects the plot.

Yes, what we've been told about magic is such a tease.   My ears always perk up when sorcery is discussed.  But until GRRM finally tells us about the relationship between ice and fire magic; all we can do is guess.

[Impbread]

1 hour ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

The World Book says Skagos is a source of obsidian. Meaning volcanoes.

A dragon hibernating in a volcanic cave, life extended by the magic of the nearby Wall? I can see it.

Dragons live to be hundreds of years old anyway it's life would not need to be extended by Magic. Although it would be very hard to keep a Dragon Under Wraps like someone else already said.

[Platypus Rex]

4 hours ago, Impbread said:

Dragons live to be hundreds of years old anyway it's life would not need to be extended by Magic. 

Yes, and remember Aemon's "ice preserves" quote.  Northern dragons probably live longer than southern ones.  And this may work for the reptile kind as well as the human kind.

[White Ravens]

11 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

Yes, and remember Aemon's "ice preserves" quote.  Northern dragons probably live longer than southern ones.  And this may work for the reptile kind as well as the human kind.

But Aemon doesn't say "ice preserves".  What he says is "Fire consumes, but cold preserves."

He says these words to Sam in while laying in bed feverish, sick and incapacitated in Braavos.  The full quote reads "Dragons. The grief and glory of my house... My brothers dreamed of dragons too, and the dreams killed them, every one. Sam, we tremble on the cusp of half-remembered prophecies... I should have seen it. Fire consumes, but cold preserves. The Wall..."

Fire consumes, but cold preserves.  Quite an obvious statement, really.  I believe that he is simply stating that his brothers died young because of their preoccupation with dragons while he lived to be a hundred years old because he pursued a less volatile life at the wall. 

[Platypus Rex]

1 hour ago, White Ravens said:

But Aemon doesn't say "ice preserves".  What he says is "Fire consumes, but cold preserves."

Works just as well.  The North is cold.  Skagos, Winterfell, the Mountains of the Moon, are all cold places.

1 hour ago, White Ravens said:

He says these words to Sam in while laying in bed feverish, sick and incapacitated in Braavos.  The full quote reads "Dragons. The grief and glory of my house... My brothers dreamed of dragons too, and the dreams killed them, every one. Sam, we tremble on the cusp of half-remembered prophecies... I should have seen it. Fire consumes, but cold preserves. The Wall..."

Fire consumes, but cold preserves.  Quite an obvious statement, really.  I believe that he is simply stating that his brothers died young because of their preoccupation with dragons while he lived to be a hundred years old because he pursued a less volatile life at the wall. 

The implication is that he lived a long time because he was sent to the Wall, where it is cold, tempering his fiery Targaryen nature,.  Presumably, his statement applies to Targaryens, and not to humans generally.  

[Syl of Syl]

Dany's three dragons herald the return of magic to the world. We see glass candles being lit again for the first time since the last dragon died. We see the kiss of life suddenly working for Thoros as it never worked before. We hear from Hallyne the pyromancer who says that their spells are more effective than at any time since the death of the last dragon. The explanation for the return of these magical abilities and wonders seems to be that they coincide with the return of dragons to the world. If that is the case, then having a dragon exist who has been here the entire time contradicts this as magic would never have died either.

It could be that Cannibal lived some time after the Dance. It is made pretty clear that Sheepstealer and Nettles were living in a cave in the Mountains of the Moon after the Dance. But they don't seem to be around anymore. For the glass candles to be extinguished for a hundred years, I would think that Cannibal and Sheepstealer and Silverwing would all have to have died at least a hundred years ago.

[lrresistable]

27 minutes ago, Syl of Syl said:

Dany's three dragons herald the return of magic to the world.

we're getting into causation fallacy with this particular assumption.

Others would argue fire magic essentially came back with the activity that's going on North of The Wall in the Lands of Always Winter, with them finally making moves in our current timeline. for lack of a better term,  some kind of Ice & Fire imbalance after Valyria got shot to shit

 

Dany's dragons are the symbol / herald of the return of magic, but i doubt it's the catalyst. 

 

theres also a potentiality of possible dragon hibernation, with Cannibal maybe having just woken recently with the advent return of magic. 

 

as to Sheepstealer.. Rakharo said he found the remains / bones of a dragon in the middle of the Red Waste when Dany sent him out scouting. 

i've always thought that could be him

 

11 hours ago, White Ravens said:

Fire consumes, but cold preserves.  Quite an obvious statement, really.  I believe that he is simply stating that his brothers died young because of their preoccupation with dragons while he lived to be a hundred years old because he pursued a less volatile life at the wall. 

i'd say they died young because they precisely didn't have dragons. they were trying to bring them back & all died in that attempt.

[White Ravens]

56 minutes ago, Syl of Syl said:

Dany's three dragons herald the return of magic to the world. We see glass candles being lit again for the first time since the last dragon died. We see the kiss of life suddenly working for Thoros as it never worked before. We hear from Hallyne the pyromancer who says that their spells are more effective than at any time since the death of the last dragon. The explanation for the return of these magical abilities and wonders seems to be that they coincide with the return of dragons to the world. If that is the case, then having a dragon exist who has been here the entire time contradicts this as magic would never have died either.

It could be that Cannibal lived some time after the Dance. It is made pretty clear that Sheepstealer and Nettles were living in a cave in the Mountains of the Moon after the Dance. But they don't seem to be around anymore. For the glass candles to be extinguished for a hundred years, I would think that Cannibal and Sheepstealer and Silverwing would all have to have died at least a hundred years ago.

Very well stated!  I agree 100%.

[Platypus Rex]

38 minutes ago, lrresistable said:

we're getting into causation fallacy with this particular assumption.

Heralds do not cause what they herald, generally speaking.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

I disagree that magic died. Not all the types of magic that exist anyway. I think the extinction of dragons saw the extinction of Valyrian magic, and I think the glass candles are symbolic of that because they stopped burning.

Magic still exists beyond the Wall and there were several instances where we saw magic at work in the first book well before the birth of the dragons.

If magic had died completely died out, I think there would have been some issues at the Wall seeing as it's woven with magic. Waymar Royce and the other two rangers would not have been raised as wights. 

Beric's first death happened after the Mummer's Ford. His resurrection happened before Dany hatched her dragons. And we saw MMD perform her blood magic ritual. Magic has to still exist if she's going to be able to do that.

I think that when the dragons died, they took with them the last of the Valyrian magic and when they returned, this is the magic that they have reawakened. And because the glass candles are Valyrian in origin, then they simply can't work without the the magic that created them in the first place. And when it returned, it strengthened other fire magic, like the spells pyromancers use for wildfire.