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Risto

Discussing Sansa XXXIV: Winterfell Is Yours, Your Grace

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There is something in making the first thread of the season so I hope I will take that cake :D Last six episodes are in front of us and show-runners and Miss Turner promised us drama that will undoubtedly result in rather interesting debates around here. 

Six threads before the end... I am becoming emotional :D So, let's see what Season 8 has in store with our Lady of Winterfell...

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I am so ready to discuss Sansa and all the debating and whatnot that comes with it. 8pm can't come fast enough.

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I would love to see Sansa in a happy healthy relationship with a man who adores her and cute babies and a prosperous Winterfell... oh wait, this is Game of Thrones!

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"Many underestimated you. Most of them are dead now." I love that. Sansa already kicking ass.

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Sorry to keep commenting but I seriously loved the exchange between Arya and Jon re: Sansa. It calls back to the scene before at the end of Season 7 when Sansa says Arya is the strongest person she knows and now Arya is like "Sansa is the smartest person I know" and Arya just defending Sansa and the two of them being a pack makes me so happy.

 

In general, I liked Sansa in this episode. Very level headed.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Pandean said:

Sorry to keep commenting but I seriously loved the exchange between Arya and Jon re: Sansa. It calls back to the scene before at the end of Season 7 when Sansa says Arya is the strongest person she knows and now Arya is like "Sansa is the smartest person I know" and Arya just defending Sansa and the two of them being a pack makes me so happy.

 

In general, I liked Sansa in this episode. Very level headed.

 

Yes; somebody has to bring up the concept of Food Shortage (due to the arrival of Winter + a huge Dothraki/Unsullied army + two ginormous dragons) to these people.  Not going to be much use in defeating the Night King and the Undead if Winterfell and the North starve to death afterward.  

Edited by Raksha 2014

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Just now, Raksha 2014 said:

 

Yes; somebody has to bring up the concept of Food Shortage (due to the arrival of Winter + a huge Dothraki/Unsullied army + two ginormous dragons) to these people.  Not going to be much use in defeating the Night King and the Undead if Winterfell and the North starve to death afterward.  

I think it's incredibly practical and pragmatic that she did so. Like, you can't even defeat the Night King if you're all starving because there's no food. And those dragons eat a lot. 

I can only imagine how Sansa would react if she heard about Dany burning the loot train with all the food in it. 

There was something really sinister in the way Dany replied to Sansa's "What do dragons eat" question and her chat with Jon about Sansa too which makes me think Dany might view her as some sort of threat. Maybe because she's used to people not being critical of her? IDK.

But yeah. I mean fighting off the army of the dead is super important but it's good that there are characters that are also keeping a level head about literally everything else not-magic zombie wars.

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Sansa has been absolutely great in those 3/4 scenes. Naturally, she mistrusts Daenerys but I hope to some sort of resolution. I wish more to have been said during the first meeting. As for the reunion with Tyrion, it went as expected. I am very glad to see Tyrion giving her a due credit (that said, I was wondering whether Tyrion knows it was Olenna who killed Joffrey). The conversation with Jon really reiterated that it is not about titles but about emotions of people and that sometimes they are too strong and can't be so easily disregarded, like Jon tends to do. 

Sansa was the voice of reason in this episode, and it seems she will continue to be one in episodes to come :D

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2 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

 

Yes; somebody has to bring up the concept of Food Shortage (due to the arrival of Winter + a huge Dothraki/Unsullied army + two ginormous dragons) to these people.  Not going to be much use in defeating the Night King and the Undead if Winterfell and the North starve to death afterward.  

I thought that was a bit daft to be honest.  Only those that are dumb enough to think the dead will lay siege to Winterfell for an entire Winter (which in Westeros can last years).

It's pretty obvious that a big battle is going to occur well before food shortages.  If the living lose, it doesn't matter anyway.  If the living win then they don't have to all be camped out in Winterfell anymore anyway.

It's all setting the scene for when Sansa turns on Jon/Dany.  When Sansa finds out Jon isn't even her half brother I am pretty sure her faux faith in him (yeah right Sansa, we believed that!) will turn into outright hostility and she'll be very keen on becoming Queen of the North.

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Just now, Risto said:

Sansa has been absolutely great in those 3/4 scenes. Naturally, she mistrusts Daenerys but I hope to some sort of resolution. I wish more to have been said during the first meeting. As for the reunion with Tyrion, it went as expected. I am very glad to see Tyrion giving her a due credit (that said, I was wondering whether Tyrion knows it was Olenna who killed Joffrey). The conversation with Jon really reiterated that it is not about titles but about emotions of people and that sometimes they are too strong and can't be so easily disregarded, like Jon tends to do. 

Sansa was the voice of reason in this episode, and it seems she will continue to be one in episodes to come :D

Yeah. I thought it was weird how Jon acted like it was Sansa who cared about titles when in reality she was trying to mention the whole emotions of the people and how the North is and everything. She's definitely the one who kind gets the whole thing regarding that.

Jon is so focused on the war, which I mean he has a reason to be, that he doesn't understand the people behind everything.

I hope Sansa continues to be the voice of reason. 

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I liked how at odds she was with Dany. The contrast between this larger-than-life daughter of a tyrant who shows up like a mythical heroine and the daughter of a hero who's becoming increasingly frustrated with mundane logistics and a lack of support was interesting. I'd have a chip on my shoulder too.

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1 minute ago, Ser Gareth said:

I thought that was a bit daft to be honest.  Only those that are dumb enough to think the dead will lay siege to Winterfell for an entire Winter (which in Westeros can last years).

It's pretty obvious that a big battle is going to occur well before food shortages.  If the living lose, it doesn't matter anyway.  If the living win then they don't have to all be camped out in Winterfell anymore anyway.

It's all setting the scene for when Sansa turns on Jon/Dany.  When Sansa finds out Jon isn't even her half brother I am pretty sure her faux faith in him (yeah right Sansa, we believed that!) will turn into outright hostility and she'll be very keen on becoming Queen of the North.

I think it's less about laying siege on Winterfell and more that A. there are now multiple armies and super hungry dragons to feed as well as all the people and B. what happens after, assuming they defeat the AotD. Not a siege situation.

Also can't understand why people still claim she is going to betray Jon. She had ample opportunity to do so beforehand and she didn't. Like seriously. Every season there's people saying Sansa is going to betray her family or something along those lines and it has yet to happen. 

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3 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

It's all setting the scene for when Sansa turns on Jon/Dany.  When Sansa finds out Jon isn't even her half brother I am pretty sure her faux faith in him (yeah right Sansa, we believed that!) will turn into outright hostility and she'll be very keen on becoming Queen of the North.

Oh, for cry loud sake, give it up already. You are beating a dead horse, the one that has been dead for past 3 seasons. It won't happen... Seriously people, start watching instead of inventing the plotlines...

4 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

It's pretty obvious that a big battle is going to occur well before food shortages.  If the living lose, it doesn't matter anyway.  If the living win then they don't have to all be camped out in Winterfell anymore anyway.

Really, because Dany brought around 100 000 people... Shortage of food is not something that can be so easily discarded.

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Just now, Pandean said:

I think it's less about laying siege on Winterfell and more that A. there are now multiple armies and super hungry dragons to feed as well as all the people and B. what happens after, assuming they defeat the AotD. Not a siege situation.

Also can't understand why people still claim she is going to betray Jon. She had ample opportunity to do so beforehand and she didn't. Like seriously. Every season there's people saying Sansa is going to betray her family or something along those lines and it has yet to happen. 

They leave Winterfell basically.  I don't think there is any danger of beating the NK and then Dany deciding to make Winterfell her home.

I think the betrayal is being set up.  She constantly undermines him in public and is like an eye rolling teenager to almost every decision he makes.  I don't think the show has done a particular good job of it but her teachers were Cersei, Tyrion and Littlefinger.  She's definitely going to play the game of thrones at some stage.

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1 minute ago, Risto said:

Oh, for cry loud sake, give it up already. You are beating a dead horse, the one that has been dead for past 3 seasons. It won't happen... Seriously people, start watching instead of inventing the plotlines...

Really, because Dany brought around 100 000 people... Shortage of food is not something that can be so easily discarded.

So you don't think there is tension between Jon and Sansa?  Then why did Jon bring it up to Arya and then to Sansa herself?  It's not exactly subtle.

I agree on the food shortages if winter was 3 months.  Presumably provisions have been set aside for 5 years+.  That's a lot of provisions, especially when the Wall has been breached and conflict would be starting in a matter of weeks/months, not years.

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1 minute ago, Ser Gareth said:

I think the betrayal is being set up.  She constantly undermines him in public and is like an eye rolling teenager to almost every decision he makes.  I don't think the show has done a particular good job of it but her teachers were Cersei, Tyrion and Littlefinger.  She's definitely going to play the game of thrones at some stage.

Pardon me, but aren't his decisions been for a good eyeroll? He has been warned about Cersei and he went straight to King's Landing and trusted Cersei. He is fully aware of the history North has with Targaryens and Lannisters and he made alliance with the subtlety of an elephant in a china shop. The man don't trust them, the people are abandoning them... Sansa has a point here.

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3 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

They leave Winterfell basically.  I don't think there is any danger of beating the NK and then Dany deciding to make Winterfell her home.

I think the betrayal is being set up.  She constantly undermines him in public and is like an eye rolling teenager to almost every decision he makes.  I don't think the show has done a particular good job of it but her teachers were Cersei, Tyrion and Littlefinger.  She's definitely going to play the game of thrones at some stage.

Yeah, but in the time being the army and the dragons and everyone still needs to eat. No matter how quickly they leave that's still going to take a large chunk out of the food supply there.

I don't see it like that, tbh. Lyanna Mormont also does the same thing and no one says she's betraying Jon. The Northerns in court is quite similar to a conclave where they all voice their opinions and Sansa brings up good points. I don't even think she's undermining him, more so questioning him. 

As for the eye-rolling, the only part I saw was when Dany did that flattery thing (similar to what Sansa did to Lyanna in Season 6) and Dany's response to Sansa's comment re: what dragons eat. Both of which I thought made sense to be annoyed at.

Not to mention I don't think playing the game of thrones ultimately means betraying Jon. The lone wolf dies, the pack survives. Sansa knows this, especially after last season.

I mean I could be totally wrong and eat my own foot by the end of the season but this is just my personal opinion re: everything.

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1 minute ago, Ser Gareth said:

She's definitely going to play the game of thrones at some stage.

As I said elsewhere, the NK will be burning Winterfell and Sansa will still be complaining about feeding the Dothraki horses. 

Though I really don't think she will betray Jon...in the show. The books? Maybe. I will forever remember a conversation we had with GRRM when he said the reason he created Sansa was because in his experience not all families get along. It's made wonder if Sansa is the foil to Tyrion: Tyrion the good Lannister and Sansa the bad Stark.

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8 minutes ago, Risto said:

Oh, for cry loud sake, give it up already. You are beating a dead horse, the one that has been dead for past 3 seasons. It won't happen... Seriously people, start watching instead of inventing the plotlines...

Really, because Dany brought around 100 000 people... Shortage of food is not something that can be so easily discarded.

And if Dany went back south, the food situation would be resolved, but it wouldn't matter because they would all be dead anyways...............

so explain your point again? 

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1 minute ago, Ser Gareth said:

So you don't think there is tension between Jon and Sansa?  Then why did Jon bring it up to Arya and then to Sansa herself?  It's not exactly subtle.

I agree on the food shortages if winter was 3 months.  Presumably provisions have been set aside for 5 years+.  That's a lot of provisions, especially when the Wall has been breached and conflict would be starting in a matter of weeks/months, not years.

5 years? That is rich for the region that survived the war and was fighting until couple of months ago,.. In Season 7 we have heard that Sansa has the food for one year. Now she has what, 10 times more people to feed... Do the math. They are in a very precarious situation regarding the food and it was normal for Sansa to raise that question.

There is a tension and that is to be expected. Jon left for south, returns after months with foreign army, giving up his crown for a woman whose father practically hurt each of those houses. We now have heard that Glovers abandoned and Sansa has been afraid of what bannermen will do if they found out she wrote a letter to Robb when she was 11? And what Jon did was far graver in terms of Northern PR politics.

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