Discussing Sansa XXXIV: Winterfell Is Yours, Your Grace

[Error-504]

10 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Is there WF magic in the show, though?  Everyone seems to have forgotten about the hot springs that run under the castle, let alone any spells or anything like that.

The magic in the wall was brought up, not sure about magic in WF. 

[Error-504]

2 minutes ago, Pandean said:

In this war? I would say losing 1,000 men to the NK's massive army is more important than the 100,000 that they still have. Especially since as those 100,000 start falling, they will just add onto the army.

 

By that Logic, Jon should just face the entirety of the Nk's forces on his own. because then he will only add one soldier to the Nk's army. less is better!!!!

SMDH

[Error-504]

4 minutes ago, Tyrion Lannister said:

Do you think I don't know that?  Obviously the war is here, whether they're ready for it or not.  That doesn't mean the North, or Sansa, will instantly trust Daenerys, her dragons or her army.  That's just human nature.  But Sansa seems to be held to a higher standard than any other character in the series by fans.

So what your saying is that Sansa and the North are to stupid to understand that such trivial things shouldn't matter in face of the current situation? They realize they would all die without Dany's help, but hey, were going to bitch about her anyways, because that is what stupid northerners do. 

Wouldn't the more realistic approach be to take what ever help you can get, and worry about the rest after the Nk is dealt with? 

It's not as if the North couldn't break oath later, they seem to do it quite frequently after all.

But NOOOOOO, lets treat our only hope of survival with disrespect........LMAO

[Pandean]

2 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

By that Logic, Jon should just face the entirety of the Nk's forces on his own. because then he will only add one soldier to the Nk's army. less is better!!!!

SMDH

That's not what I'm saying, though.

I'm saying that it does matter that a thousand men just went and abandoned them. For the same reason it mattered that the Wildlings crossed the wall and the same reason it matters that the people in the higher north than Winterfell move south towards Winterfell.

You're twisting my words and also being quite rude for some weird reason. 

It's a complex situation. It's more complex than who has the bigger number. Yeah, it's not the largest issue in the series but it's still not good and it moreso it shows the mood that the other characters are feeling. And it's a dangerous mood. Any army is only as good as their morale and it makes sense that after all the Northerners have been through, the idea of their chosen king bending the knee and pleging them all to a queen they don't want to follow is damaging that moral.

That's important.

[Error-504]

1 minute ago, Pandean said:

That's not what I'm saying, though.

I'm saying that it does matter that a thousand men just went and abandoned them. For the same reason it mattered that the Wildlings crossed the wall and the same reason it matters that the people in the higher north than Winterfell move south towards Winterfell.

You're twisting my words and also being quite rude for some weird reason. 

It's a complex situation. It's more complex than who has the bigger number. Yeah, it's not the largest issue in the series but it's still not good and it moreso it shows the mood that the other characters are feeling. And it's a dangerous mood. Any army is only as good as their morale and it makes sense that after all the Northerners have been through, the idea of their chosen king bending the knee and pleging them all to a queen they don't want to follow is damaging that moral.

That's important.

Important?

 

Only marginally. Isn't it also important for Dany and her forces moral to be high? You can't have it both ways. 

And, it's really not a complex situation at all. Your just trying to make it that way. 

it's a do or die situation. 

Bran said it best. We don't have time for this. WE DON'T HAVE TIME FOR ANY OF THIS!!

Did you miss that part?

Their moral will come around when they are faced with fighting for there survival. It's a much different scenario than if they were fighting along side dany to try to defeat Cersie. 

a bunch of armchair QB's, saying Jon should have done this, Jon should have done that. Again, for the umpteenth time, Jon didn't have time to do it any differently. The NK will be at Wf in 3 days. 

[BlueNightzx]

20 minutes ago, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

Yeah, in the books (if George ever finishes them) it will play out differently.  Jon attacks Winterfell, is defeated, but then an army from the Vale arrives with Sansa, but the Northern lords present Robb's letter (which doesn't exist on the show). 

I had forgot about Robbs letter, good catch!

[Pandean]

7 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

The NK will be at Wf in 3 days. 

WE know that from the trailer. But they don't. 

I'm not saying what or what not Jon should've done.

I'm just saying I understand the reactions of those that aren't happy, including Sansa. That's all.

[Cas Stark]

Why does Sansa do almost all of her complaining and side eyeing in public?  Why does she seem to specifically and with a purpose undermine him by constantly in public question his decision making?

If she took him aside and told him her concerns in private that would be different than slamming him this year and last year in public meetings.

Maybe the show is trying to show how powerful and 'smart' she is, but it makes me dislike her  more than I already do.

[KingintheNorth4]

I find it funny that they just left Bran sitting there in the courtyard for who knows how many hours lol.

[OldGimletEye]

5 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Why does Sansa do almost all of her complaining and side eyeing in public?  Why does she seem to specifically and with a purpose undermine him by constantly in public question his decision making?

Because D&D don't know what sensible people do.

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

5 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Why does Sansa do almost all of her complaining and side eyeing in public?  Why does she seem to specifically and with a purpose undermine him by constantly in public question his decision making?

If she took him aside and told him her concerns in private that would be different than slamming him this year and last year in public meetings.

Maybe the show is trying to show how powerful and 'smart' she is, but it makes me dislike her  more than I already do.

How exactly did she undermine him?  I have a feeling you're seeing things that aren't there because you don't like her.

[Error-504]

16 minutes ago, Pandean said:

WE know that from the trailer. But they don't. 

I'm not saying what or what not Jon should've done.

I'm just saying I understand the reactions of those that aren't happy, including Sansa. That's all.

And I am saying Jon has always been operating under the presumption that he needed to get help to WF as fast as possible. and funny thing is, Jon was right. That is why I always laugh when the conversation turns to "Jon should have done this" or "Jon should have done that". 

And if they believe Jon Snow (and not much has been made about any Northerners doubting the NK is coming), then yes,, they should know. 

[Pandean]

What exactly is she 'complaining' about and undermining him about?

She only mentioned the food shortage issue. Literally, which is a big fucking deal. That's bringing up a problem to the court, not undermining.

If anyone was undermining Jon and insulting Jon in this episode it was Lyanna Mormont. But I don't see anyone talking about her.

Sansa is one of Jon's advisors. It's her job to ask him questions and point things out. Even during court or conclave meetings.

Since when is her doing her job as Lady of Winterfell complaining and undermining? 

[Pandean]

1 minute ago, Error-504 said:

And I am saying Jon has always been operating under the presumption that he needed to get help to WF as fast as possible. and funny thing is, Jon was right. That is why I always laugh when the conversation turns to "Jon should have done this" or "Jon should have done that". 

And if they believe Jon Snow (and not much has been made about any Northerners doubting the NK is coming), then yes,, they should know. 

How the hell are they supposed to know the NK is coming in three days. None of them, save Bran, are telepathic or omniscient or whatever.

Jon did what he thought was needed. And in a way, it is what was needed. But that doesn't mean the Northerners, people who have been portrayed as proud, stubborn, isolationists, who have been through hell and back due to their fight for independence can't feel betrayed or that they need to lie down like dogs and praise Dany for everything.

They're allowed to be angry. Is that anger helpful? No, probably not. But is it realistic and understandable? I would argue it is. 

 

[Error-504]

19 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Why does Sansa do almost all of her complaining and side eyeing in public?  Why does she seem to specifically and with a purpose undermine him by constantly in public question his decision making?

If she took him aside and told him her concerns in private that would be different than slamming him this year and last year in public meetings.

Maybe the show is trying to show how powerful and 'smart' she is, but it makes me dislike her  more than I already do.

I would like to believe it is for the benefit of the Northern Lords so they don't feel they are being steam rolled. If they feel they have a vice with Sansa, and she is ok with it, then in turn they are ok with it?

Probably just manufactured drama, like we went through last season with LF and the fake Sansa/Arya conflict. 

[Error-504]

7 minutes ago, Pandean said:

What exactly is she 'complaining' about and undermining him about?

She only mentioned the food shortage issue. Literally, which is a big fucking deal. That's bringing up a problem to the court, not undermining.

If anyone was undermining Jon and insulting Jon in this episode it was Lyanna Mormont. But I don't see anyone talking about her.

Sansa is one of Jon's advisors. It's her job to ask him questions and point things out. Even during court or conclave meetings.

Since when is her doing her job as Lady of Winterfell complaining and undermining? 

You don't have to feed the dead. 

[Pandean]

1 minute ago, Error-504 said:

You don't have to feed the dead. 

Gotta feed those 100,000+ new people, all the refugees, and those two dragons though.

[Error-504]

12 minutes ago, Pandean said:

How the hell are they supposed to know the NK is coming in three days. None of them, save Bran, are telepathic or omniscient or whatever.

Jon did what he thought was needed. And in a way, it is what was needed. But that doesn't mean the Northerners, people who have been portrayed as proud, stubborn, isolationists, who have been through hell and back due to their fight for independence can't feel betrayed or that they need to lie down like dogs and praise Dany for everything.

They're allowed to be angry. Is that anger helpful? No, probably not. But is it realistic and understandable? I would argue it is. 

 

Oh come on!! Even Qyburn knows the dead have breached the wall. You don't think the North has gotten that news? Who would have sent that raven to KL, if not the North? And yeah, they do have Bran, you don't think he would be keeping an eye on the Nk's progress? 

They're allowed to be angry. Is that anger helpful? No, probably not. But is it realistic and understandable? I would argue it is. 

And I would argue it's silly and pointless. 

Again they don't have time for this. THEY DON'T HAVE TIME FOR ANY OF THIS! 

 

[Error-504]

7 minutes ago, Pandean said:

Gotta feed those 100,000+ new people, all the refugees, and those two dragons though.

For 2-3 days. Until in which WF will have been destroyed, and all the food along with it. Thanks to Sansa and her brilliant idea to bring ALL the food to WF, at ground zero of the battle. 

Your also making the assumption Dany traveled North with zero supplies. 

[Pandean]

4 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

And I would argue it's silly and pointless. 

To the bigger threat, yeah it is. But it's still understandable , imo.

Obviously we just don't agree on that front or really any front so *shrug*.